CCW renewal class

[GlockGirl]

I had a CCW renewal class in Jan. with Ken Greenwood as the instructor. I was less than impressed with his personality.
Ken called me up at 9pm the night before he was holding a class and would not hang up until I agreed that I would take his class. He told me that in El Dorado County you need to have 3 letters of recommendation for renewal and he would give me an outline so I had an example when people asked me what should be included in it. However, over a month later, still no letter...
I showed up and we went through HIS training. There is no other type of training that will work besides his(sarcasm). After a few hours, it was finally my turn to show him that I can load and unload my gun (by this point in the class I wanted to put holes in paper and leave).
However, I do not have the upper body strength to check the barrel the EXACT way that he did it. He made me feel terrible because he commented on my lack of muscle strength in front of the class. He then made me repeat the exercise 6 times (in front of everyone), each time I still could not pull the muscle strength together to do it his way. So instead I did it the way I was always taught(instead of having my thumb facing down I did it facing up). It is still safe and you get the same outcome, I checked to confirm that there was a round in the barrel.
As we were shooting, he commented that I could do it "my way", but everyone else had to do it his way. He made me feel really out of place and belittled as a woman, and I will not be doing any business with him again.
P.S. he continually suggested that his students tip him as well! I thought that was extremely tacky.

[CalCCW03]

I copied this post from the Ladies sub-forum in case anyone missed it over there.

[Banana]

I thought these two tidbits also translated over fairly well

Originally Posted by GlockGirl

I have attended Peter Kotch's class, and it was a good class. However, Ken contacted me via calCCW and told me that I now needed letters of recommendation for my renewal. I asked him what kind of letters, so he told me if I took his class he would help me decide who and what the letters should be from/say.
I decided to give him a try, there are a few different instructors in the county, and I thought I would try his class this time. However, I think I will be going back to Peter's class in 2 years. If I have not moved out of California.

Originally Posted by CalCCW03

Ken Greenwood aka StraightShot has been banned for violating our non-solicitation/spamming clause located in our site's Terms of Service.

[Kappy]

You gotta love somebody who can't make allowances for the differences between people. Frankly, I would have told him to F-off and walked off the site. That's why I'm glad all the folks up here in Sutter are pretty nice folks, even though there is a minor rivalry between CCW instructors. They're all positive folks. They just want people to have fun in the sport/hobby and enjoy their 2A.

[yubasutterccw]

Originally Posted by Kappy

even though there is a minor rivalry between CCW instructors.

????

[horses4terri]

I have known Ken for seven years. My daughter and sons were trained by Ken since they were nine. He taught them FREE through 4H monthly for years. My children were never insulted or belittled. His teaching method is thorough and all about safety. He is a good man and passionate about teaching safety. I took CCW training from Ken earlier this year as well. He did "joke" about a tip. My husband took the CCW training about a month later with my supervisor (another small framed woman) and two district attorneys. According to my husband, they had a great time and were at the class longer then the "paid" time. He assisted me in the CCW license process and gave me the support and guidance to obtain a license without additional compensation. However, I actually asked for it and had he forgot to send me something I would have reminded him. It's unfortunate that one person can smear such hatred on a site that claims ..."we hold ourselves accountable for our words and actions, we also hold all members accountable for their words and actions, because we are all a reflection of CalCCW.com" I have searched this site before but wasn't compelled to join and post until I saw the smearing of a good man's name. If you were on the receiving end of this defamation, I'm sure you would not appreciate the "support" from fellow members.

[naganthunter]

I would say that the OP is entitled to an opinion, just as you are.

[mark]

+ 1

[paul0660]

so Mr. Greenwood is only a jerk sometimes..............that is a low standard.

[X-ffdo]

Originally Posted by naganthunter

I would say that the OP is entitled to an opinion, just as you are.

You can express an opinion here. We are not going to go through a verification program to prove or disprove anything, it is not the intended purpose of this board to investigate such things. The opinions and action of a poster does not reflect the opinion of the rest of the members.
This board serves other purposes.

[Truckoholic]

I don't know this instructor, but I'm sorry for your poor experience with him. I have a very low tolerance for know it all firearms instructors. I have been to multiple ccw classes in Oregon, Nevada and California, and I have discovered that every single one of them has "Their way". Their own techniques that differ sometimes tremendously from the other instructors. I was trying to describe it to my cousin one time and she said "But aren't gun safety rules the same everywhere?" And I told her Well yeah, the gun safety rules are universal, but the safety procedures and techniques of the instructors differ greatly from one instructor to the other. It is very annoying because you go to one class, and when you get to the range to do the shooting portion, you have one instructor beat it into your head that you check that the gun is empty by holding the gun one way, and racking the slide 3 times in rapid succesion with the magazine removed. Then the next instructor insists that you grab the slide just behind the muzzle with your left hand and pull it back just half an inch to check that the chamber is empty. Then the next instructor insists that you hold it a different way, and lock the slide open to insure it is empty. And all of those ways to those instructors, are THE ONLY WAY to do it.

One instructor will insist that after you are done firing you return your gun to it's holster. The next one will insist that you hold it in a gay little two handed position close to your chest. The next will insist that you continue to hold it with both hands out in front of you after you are done until he tells you to make sure it's empty. It just about makes me crazy! They all teach the same gun safety rules, but they all have their own completely different ideas about technique. Which having your own technique is fine, but to act like it is THE ONLY WAY and to belittle people because they don't have the muscle strength or abnormal contortion abilities that you have to check a gun the way you insist it needs to be done, is just wrong.

One of the gun instructors had the balls to pick up my gun and examine it and announce to the rest of the class that my gun was dirty. It was NOT dirty! I keep my guns clean. Whatever "Dirtyness" he saw was from carrying it concealed all day. I am not going to clean every little bit of lint out of my gun every single day. I was quite offended by him telling everyone my gun was dirty making me look bad.

Whatever! They are all different! So I just go there, try to do whatever they want me to do just so I can get that certificate, and I'm outta there!

[Jonnyboy182]

Originally Posted by horses4terri

I have known Ken for seven years. My daughter and sons were trained by Ken since they were nine. He taught them FREE through 4H monthly for years. My children were never insulted or belittled. His teaching method is thorough and all about safety. He is a good man and passionate about teaching safety. I took CCW training from Ken earlier this year as well. He did "joke" about a tip. My husband took the CCW training about a month later with my supervisor (another small framed woman) and two district attorneys. According to my husband, they had a great time and were at the class longer then the "paid" time. He assisted me in the CCW license process and gave me the support and guidance to obtain a license without additional compensation. However, I actually asked for it and had he forgot to send me something I would have reminded him. It's unfortunate that one person can smear such hatred on a site that claims ..."we hold ourselves accountable for our words and actions, we also hold all members accountable for their words and actions, because we are all a reflection of CalCCW.com" I have searched this site before but wasn't compelled to join and post until I saw the smearing of a good man's name. If you were on the receiving end of this defamation, I'm sure you would not appreciate the "support" from fellow members.

Woah, Woah, Woah-While I have no issue with someone defending another person, I find it weird that it would be a brand new member making her first post in defense of someone.

I have never taken a class with this gentleman, and I'm sure there are people that walk away from his class happy, just as there are people that walk away unhappy. Because your husband took a class with some women doesnt mean he understood how they felt. I was fortunate enough to take my class with the powers team. There were 2 women in the class and craig and becky spent more time with them, helping them, but never belittling them or expecting them to do something that was physically really really tough. He was harder on us guys because we didn't have an excuse. Yes, I'm sure that every instructor is going to have a different way of teaching and dealing with people, but I also know that that rubs different people differently. Because you enjoy him does not mean everyone will or should. He may have been extremely nice to your family, but in a bad day or moment, treated someone else badly.

[Poogsdad]

As Truckoholic noted, there are a large number of Firearms Instructors or Schools to choose from for all types of firearms training.

Some are extreemly competent and professional and others are "Not So Competent or Professional". The quality of this "Competence and Professionalism" is normally a subjective assessment based upon the perception of the individual students. Some students will view a particular instructor or school as the "End All, Be All, Best Trainer/School on the planet" while others will have polar opposite opinions of the same Instructor or school. These are all the personal and, occationally, professional, opinions of individuals and all should be respected, if not agreed with.

My daughter and I, as well as some other members of this forum, recently had the opportunity to attent a training event sponsered by the Safety First Shooting Association in Winton, CA. Presenters at this training event consisted of Instructors from three different and unique shooting schools as well as individual presenters.

Though there were many very knowledgeable and experienced instructors, none pushed their own “Pet/Preferred Technique” to the exclusion of others. As long as you were comfortable with your own technique and it was safe and effective, they did not attempt to “Change you”. They did offer guidance and recommendations to make you more effective, efficient, and safe where appropriate, however.

The more training events you attend, the more exposure and knowledge you will acquire. You may not always agree with or advocate some of the things that are presented in a particular training event. You will, however, learn from every training event you attend.

For those of you who may be interested here is my personal review of the training: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/announc...tml#post157539.

I did not agree with or advocate everything that was presented, but I did learn what worked best for me and I came away satisfied.

Thanks,

Poogsdad

[X-ffdo]

I follow what you are all saying. I think ego plays a big part with some of these people, note I said "some".
I sometimes take classes from different people to sample different experience basis. I recall one time I was calling on the phone to get info about classes that this guy offered in Ventura county, they have a nice web site where they advertise their courses, looks like a scenario out of the South African army or similar, my impression, anyway. I talked to this instructor on the phone and I was about to mention to him that I tried to keep up to speed because I had a CCW, he quickly cut me off and mouthed, "That don't mean a thing", I realized right away that my call had paid off!!!! I flushed this jerk out and avoided the pain of taking his class!!!
Now I spoke to another guy in same area who also advertises in the net and he was fine. I ended up not taking any courses in that area due to the distance.
Small world, someone inquired about the former individual and I said "Call this guy up and get back to me", he did, same thing, then I told him of my experience. This people will never survive for the long run.
-Note.I do not know about the particulars with this person referred to in this thread. My info is an illustration as to the different players out there. It pays to interview them on the phone. You can hire them or fire them then.
It is your money!

[usmc_jagGIRL]

I've taken classes with him, he is awesome! I'm a woman, and he didn't make me feel at all belittled, he pokes humor of course, but nothing more than a well spirited man who is trying to enjoy what he loves. Very thorough and ACCURATE man, who has a passion for TEACHING. This is my first post saw the thumbs down, was curious, and I'm kinda shocked that names are allowed to be disclosed in concern to a man and his business, as this is not a review statement, this is slander, and let alone a man I know. Maybe the accuser should hold their tongue in such heated words. And those defending her should also hold their tongues, since none of you have dealt with him. And those who have it seems to be blasting him on personal matters and not his actually accuracy of instruction. As well, if you're so knowledgeable on gun handling, why are you trying to back up your ways, when a man of trained qualifications is instructing you, proving he is more capable of instruction than you? you need the class, maybe you should learn his methods and do what he insists, HE is the INSTRUCTOR not you. It sounds more like someone who doesn't want to be proven wrong or corrected, and dare I say in complete openness someone who is full of themselves and arrogant. Which eludes to those that shouldn't even be allowed to posses a CCW let alone have a gun.
Also to the moderator, maybe you should state a terms of agreement so this website doesn't become its own target. Stated within, should be a consensus that, names and slander will not be allowed, of course also including other matters. As this is not an appropriate way to go about facilitating these matters.
As there is a Freedom of Communication Act, there is also disbandment for such.
All of those who have slandered Ken Greenwood please advise to this site.

Defamation, Libel and Slander Law

I state repeatedly to the moderator it be wise to have a terms of agreement. As currently since you do not have one anything stated is allowed, any form of communication is allowed, however such unjust matters, are not, no matter the pretenses. Hence why "burn sites" are not available and FCC shuts them down!
An ongoing rule of thumb, be careful what you post, even if deleted everything leaves a trail.
Can't believe I am working pro bono on my leave!!!!!! What has the U.S. come to