Position SUL

[X-ffdo]

Oh.....I am tired!!!!!...Oxygen mask on, 100% oxygen.. .Throtles to Idle..Speed brakes, deploy......MCP dial 10,000....Heading, right 90 degrees off airway. FLCH mode activate, Speed, select just under Mach Limit.. Keep it off barber pole!!!!!. Clack, Clack, Clack.....Squak 7700. "Center, Allmighty Four Seven, MayDay, May day....Emergency Descent...Leaving FL 350 for Min Sector Safe Alt, 10,000, declaring emergency!!!!!
Now......... did you all get that?
Do you need to know that? That is just the same way most persons with a CCW need to know SUL. The gun is always loaded, finger off the trigger, that is what you need to know!!!!...
End of maneuver. Shut down simulator. Its beer time in the valley!!!! And the beat goes on!!

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by Spicy McHaggis

I rarely travel with my four man tactical team outside of the mall environment, so this isn't something I plan to use in a self defense situation.

Very Unwise, young man. You must doublestack your trauma plates in the front to cover your significant other as she...



And the only reason I posted here again was to see if X-FFDO will have an anurism!

[Diablo]

My feeling is that if you carry a weapon, CCW or not, exposing yourself to diffrent concepts can only make you a better handler and a skilled pistolero. Main thing is KEEP YOUR FINGER OF THE TRIGGER. It an excellent way to check your six and if need be come up on target fast. If it's done properly, you can shave off time coming up on target. I'd say to learn SUL from a skilled instructor who knows the position well. Folks that are used to "square" range training would most definately find movements with a hot weapon scary. Most instructors will not teach SUL for liability reasons, but that does not mean that this tactic couldn't be useful at some point. Trust me......heaven forbid....YOU are the one CCW at the mall that runs across one of these knuckleheads shooting up the place; 1. if you have the courage to put a stop to the madness and draw your weapon 2. if you're lucky and get hit's on target, trust me LEO's are rolling... Do you think for a second that if you are covering a Tango at low ready.....YOU couldn't be mistaken for a Tango. What are you gonna do, holster your weapon? What if there are more Tangos.
SUL gives you the option, gun hand, ready to rock and roll if need be.......yet a percieved non threat because the weapon is held close to the body and pointed SUL. Food for thought. It's an option.....it's not just for teams or Protection Specialist.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by Diablo

My feeling is that if you carry a weapon, CCW or not, exposing yourself to diffrent concepts can only make you a better handler and a skilled pistolero. Main thing is KEEP YOUR FINGER OF THE TRIGGER. It an excellent way to check your six and if need be come up on target fast. If it's done properly, you can shave off time coming up on target. I'd say to learn SUL from a skilled instructor who knows the position well.

Just curious, but do you work for TFTT and/or Gabe Suarez? You keep plugging them in almost every post you have made. These posts are coming off as advertising for them as opposed to be a student of them.

Folks that are used to "square" range training would most definately find movements with a hot weapon scary. Most instructors will not teach SUL for liability reasons, but that does not mean that this tactic couldn't be useful at some point. Trust me......heaven forbid....YOU are the one CCW at the mall that runs across one of these knuckleheads shooting up the place; 1. if you have the courage to put a stop to the madness and draw your weapon 2. if you're lucky and get hit's on target, trust me LEO's are rolling... Do you think for a second that if you are covering a Tango at low ready.....YOU couldn't be mistaken for a Tango. What are you gonna do, holster your weapon? What if there are more Tangos.
SUL gives you the option, gun hand, ready to rock and roll if need be.......yet a percieved non threat because the weapon is held close to the body and pointed SUL. Food for thought. It's an option.....it's not just for teams or Protection Specialist.

Are you saying that a LEO is going to perceive you as less of a threat because you are holding your firearm out in the open, but in a safe position (SUL); as opposed to holding your firearm in some other position at the ready? Do you recommend doing this with your CCW badge around your neck too or would SUL be blocking the badge?

I don't mean to poke fun at SUL or any other training method, because anything you can learn to improve the tacticool mindset can always be beneficial and fun. From a CCW standpoint, there are really only a couple of options if you have to use your firearm - concealed (holstered or hidden by clothing) or on target.

[MadMex]

A situation that come to mind for CCW use of SUL… Evacuating loved ones out of harm’s way from an active shooter situation, such as a mall shooting. I’d prefer to be drawn, however as covert as possible. Re-holster or engage as needed. Unfortunately my world isn’t as black and white as on 'target' or 'holstered'.

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by MadMex

A situation that come to mind for CCW use of SUL… Evacuating loved ones out of harm’s way from an active shooter situation, such as a mall shooting. I’d prefer to be drawn, however as covert as possible. Re-holster or engage as needed. Unfortunately my world isn’t as black and white as on 'target' or 'holstered'.

MadMex you had to say "Mall" didn't you.

[WKC]

Originally Posted by MadMex

A situation that come to mind for CCW use of SUL… Evacuating loved ones out of harm’s way from an active shooter situation, such as a mall shooting. I’d prefer to be drawn, however as covert as possible. Re-holster or engage as needed. Unfortunately my world isn’t as black and white as on 'target' or 'holstered'.

I'm unclear on this. Given an active shooter scenario and I am with people I need to protect, they will not be in front of me and everyone else is the potential shooter. So why would I want to put my weapon into SUL?

[MadMex]

Originally Posted by WKC

I'm unclear on this. Given an active shooter scenario and I am with people I need to protect, they will not be in front of me and everyone else is the potential shooter.

Agreed.

Evacuating, moving away from the active shooter, prepared to engage an unknown accomplace and not wanting to be miss-ID's by LEO as the active shooter.

I won't convince you; you won't convince me. Agree to disagree. You do it your way; I'll do it my way. Hopefully we both live with the consequences of our respective decisions .

[El Gato]

Point #1 - can't this whole discussion be summed up by saying "never point the muzzle of your weapon system and any entity you are not intending to destroy?"... or something like that....

Point #2 - Kudo's to Suarez for inventing something that everyone has to take his class to learn... Up with capitalism!.... wish I had thought of it...sincerely...I mean it... really...KUDO'S WITH CAPITAL LETTERS...

Point #3 - Took Clint's team tactics class... never discussed "sul"... but I have an aversion to pointing a muzzle at the "boys"... did discuss lots of ways to avoid sweeping my team mate ...who is also my life mate...swmbo...with the muzzle of the weapon system...

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by El Gato

Point #1 - can't this whole discussion be summed up by saying "never point the muzzle of your weapon system and any entity you are not intending to destroy?"... or something like that....

Point #2 - Kudo's to Suarez for inventing something that everyone has to take his class to learn... Up with capitalism!.... wish I had thought of it...sincerely...I mean it... really...KUDO'S WITH CAPITAL LETTERS...

Point #3 - Took Clint's team tactics class... never discussed "sul"... but I have an aversion to pointing a muzzle at the "boys"... did discuss lots of ways to avoid sweeping my team mate ...who is also my life mate...swmbo...with the muzzle of the weapon system...

Point #1 - Yes
Point #2 - Suarez didn't invent it, Max Joseph and Alan Brosnan "invented" it.
Point #3 - Did he cover the multi stacked trauma plates???

[MadMex]

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

Point #2 - Suarez didn't invent it, Max Joseph and Alan Brosnan "invented" it.

Suarez openly acknowledges he didn’t “invent” sul.

How about some bumper stickers that read SUL HAPPENS.

[shrike5000]

This man was born to shoot. In the movies he hits all his targets without missing one. Hand to hand he's probably the highest paid martial arts actor next to jet li, wesley snipes and a couple others. I think everyone can learn from the man I call "Seagal"

[WKC]

Originally Posted by shrike5000

This man was born to shoot. In the movies he hits all his targets without missing one. Hand to hand he's probably the highest paid martial arts actor next to jet li, wesley snipes and a couple others. I think everyone can learn from the man I call "Seagal"

Seagal married into his black belt. He runs like a girlie-girl.

[hygyliac]

Originally Posted by WKC

Seagal married into his black belt. He runs like a girlie-girl.

I remember a story that a DoD buddy told me. It was a couple years back when Seagal had only three movies under his belt. My buddy was there watching them film a fight scene and one of the stuntmen, a former marine, doubted Seagal's toughness. The two squared off for a friendly demonstartion and Seagal was knocked on his butt. I've always wondered!

[WKC]

Originally Posted by hygyliac

I remember a story that a DoD buddy told me. It was a couple years back when Seagal had only three movies under his belt. My buddy was there watching them film a fight scene and one of the stuntmen, a former marine, doubted Seagal's toughness. The two squared off for a friendly demonstartion and Seagal was knocked on his butt. I've always wondered!

At the height of his fame, the press ran stories about his dojo in Japan. I don't remember the exact details but I recall the dojo was part of his Japanese wife's family's. Since he was to be the head of the dojo, they had to promote him to either 5th or 6th dan.

I also recall meeting people who have been to his dojo in southern Cal. Populated by a lot of Hollyweird want-to-be. Lots of beautiful people. There is only one Aikido Dojo in southern Cal worth going to and his is not it.