Review of Thunder Ranch course I took in July (THG2)

[1buba]

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

I think you have to take it a bit further than that.

I think most who have issues with frontsite see it as an integrity issue resulting from both of the reasons you give.

Like you I hear the training is fantastic, but then again, if most people get crappy training for $100 dollars, they'll talk about it. If they spend $1000 and get the same crappy training, they won't...they are too embarrassed.

yup. well said.

[rickr96]

On the subject of Front Sight...

In May I attended a 4-day HG class and I enjoyed the Front Sight experience. The course begins with the basics and moves through several dry fire and live fire drills, including firing from the draw, and from the ready. The live fire drills are from different distances and include single shots, double & triple taps, headshots, multiple and timed targets (turners), a low light and night shoot, and two trips through the "fun house." They add a couple skills competitions along the way, which allow students to measure themselves against others in the group. Also included are malfunction drills (failure to feed, failure to eject, etc.) and emergency and tactical reload drills. The afternoon portion of the last day is a "skills qualifier" where student’s progress through a timed course of fire and timed reload and malfunction drills. To “graduate” from the course, students must complete the course of fire and drills within a set times and achieve a minimum accuracy score.

They claim upon completion most students will posses the skills to draw from a concealed holster and fire 2 COM hits in 1.5 sec.'s or less. Everyone in my class (30+ people) achieved this.

I knew little about Front Sight prior to attending... and I knew nothing about the lawsuits and Piazza's affiliations... Things I've read and heard since would not stop be from going back and taking more classes. In my opinion, the training is very good.

One annoyance (not really a negative) is sitting through a couple lectures that are nothing more then sales pitches… The course includes lectures each of the four days. A couple are very interesting and enjoyable. A couple others are more infomercials about Front Sight, memberships, and Piazza’s vision for what Front Sight is to become… Don’t get me wrong, there is no “hard sell” and it’s not like a timeshare sales meeting and no one is forced to sit there and listen… But when it’s 110 outside and the only air conditioned room available is the lecture hall, you tend to sit through whatever they're saying no matter how annoying.

The negatives for me are... Travel time, amount of time away from work and home, spending four nights is Pahrump, NV (not the fun capitol they claim it to be), and the hotel and food expenses. The cost for the course is not really and issue. I found a coupon on line for around $100 for the 4-day course. Of the 30+ people in my group, several were members attending for free (after paid memberships ranging from $600 to several thousand dollars) or people who, like me, had some how come across a coupon. I did not meet anyone who admitted to paying the $800.00 course fees quoted online. For the $100, I enjoyed the class, learned a lot, and felt my time there was well spent.

That being said, I now consider myself lucky to have found an excellent instructor closer to home. After taking a couple classes from Greg Block (CCWInstructor) I’ve found I don’t need to travel several hundred miles (R/T) to get excellent and high quality firearms training. Greg’s classes are fun, challenging and cover everything I was offered at Front Sight, and, I got to sleep in my own bed at night.

[BYcyclist]

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

If they spend $1000 and get the same crappy training, they won't...they are too embarrassed.

I don't have pride about this and will readily admit when I've made mistakes and will revise my views upon confirmation of better data.

I HAVE wasted $500 before for total CR** training from a local instructor when I first got into firearms, which is why I tend to encourage folks now to get their fundamental training from known, reputable instructors. That's not to say local instructors aren't any good, its just you have to check references and credentials, etc.

At that time, I didn't know what I didn't know, so I didn't have any objective frame of reference other than my own previous physiological knowledge from martial arts. I knew it didn't feel or seem right, but I thought, wow, maybe its just really different.

Now I know better, which is why I'm very open to learning new things involving gunfighting, shooting, and self-defense, but I do question everything and subject it through my own personal neuro/physiological "grid," even stuff from the "gun" gurus.

[1buba]

Originally Posted by BYcyclist

I don't have pride about this and will readily admit when I've made mistakes and will revise my views upon confirmation of better data.

I HAVE wasted $500 before for total CR** training from a local instructor when I first got into firearms, which is why I tend to encourage folks now to get their fundamental training from known, reputable instructors. That's not to say local instructors aren't any good, its just you have to check references and credentials, etc.

At that time, I didn't know what I didn't know, so I didn't have any objective frame of reference other than my own previous physiological knowledge from martial arts. I knew it didn't feel or seem right, but I thought, wow, maybe its just really different.

Now I know better, which is why I'm very open to learning new things involving gunfighting, shooting, and self-defense, but I do question everything and subject it through my own personal neuro/physiological "grid," even stuff from the "gun" gurus.

It happens to all of us. I wasted money before I found the CCW boards too. The group here has been a real valuable asset on not just CCW, but it seems each have a specific area that they are knowledgable in. There are folks that know a lot about tactical shooting, long range tactical, black powder, mil-surplus rifles, you name it, they are here. However, since those things aren't the purpose of the board, please keep those discussions to PM so i don't get slapped. lol

[IAmASensFan]

My instructor is pretty cheap...






...but he ain't easy

[Brian1911]

rickr96,

I agree with you 100%. I also attended FS 4 course. I did like the Instructor and the facility is pretty cool. If I lived in LV, I would probably join. With that said there are lots of local instructors out there and probably closer to home that teach the same format at a cheaper price. You will just have to for go the fancy range.

I was also lucky and was invited as a guest. So all I had to pay was there $ 50.00 background check.

I do plan to take a Thunder Ranch course in 2008. I have heard nothing but good things about Mr. Smith.

Brian

[El Gato]

RE: Thunder Ranch

My wife and I took the team tactics class. A friend of mine convinced me to go by saying he had wasted alot of money going to marriage counseling...then he and his wife took the team tactics class... and it was better than marriage counseling...they had to actually communicate in the terminator... and it was much cheaper.

We went and had a great time. Clint was testing the sprinfield xd and loaned the gun to my wife and gave her a bucket of ammo to shoot. She had a great time!

Clint and Heidi were great hosts and we plan to go back again next year to do some continuing education.

Yeah... I had to buy two XD 45's -- 5 inch barrels of course... when we got back...

Front Sight used to be in Bakersfield...
We shared a range...
Since then some of my friends have gone to their classes and were pleased..
I think I will stick to TR and try Gunsite...

Anybody tried Blackwater?

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by El Gato

RE: Thunder Ranch

My wife and I took the team tactics class. A friend of mine convinced me to go by saying he had wasted alot of money going to marriage counseling...then he and his wife took the team tactics class... and it was better than marriage counseling...they had to actually communicate in the terminator... and it was much cheaper.

We went and had a great time. Clint was testing the sprinfield xd and loaned the gun to my wife and gave her a bucket of ammo to shoot. She had a great time!

Clint and Heidi were great hosts and we plan to go back again next year to do some continuing education.

Yeah... I had to buy two XD 45's -- 5 inch barrels of course... when we got back...

Front Sight used to be in Bakersfield...
We shared a range...
Since then some of my friends have gone to their classes and were pleased..
I think I will stick to TR and try Gunsite...

Anybody tried Blackwater?

I have a couple friends who swear by Blackwater, but they are Iraq Veterans and get off on that stuff. They have a driving class I want to take.