Thoughts on the Ultra CDP II, part 2

[ordu]

Before going to the range tonight I took the CDP apart, followed the lubrication instructions EXACTLY. Took apart the brand new wilson combat magazines, made sure they weren't funky in any way. Everything all shiny and new and lubricated.

So, I fired another 300 rounds through the CDP at the range tonight. Every single magazine I fed into the CDP I had problems. Not really happy at the moment.

1 in 6 magazines, the first round would fail to feed.
9 of 10 magazines the last round would either completely fail to feed or would not cycle completely forward, pushing on the slide with my thumb and it'd cycle forward correctly.
1 in 8 magazines the second to last round would fail in the same way.

I'm starting to think I am either doing something extraordinarily stupid or there is a problem. 600 rounds seems like a lot of ammo to blow through the thing and still have these problems.

I took some pictures, excuse the awful nature of them - I only had my phone with me (I wasn't expecting to still be having this many problems).

First round failure:



Fourth round failure:



Last round failure:

[X-ffdo]

If my eyesight serves me well, you are using a Kimber mag....(The base looks like a GI mag).if affirmative, there is your problem, looks like the angle of the bullet coming out of the mag is not quite in alignment and its jamming against the ramp. If not the case, I am wrong!. The other issue is I see a cartridge almost into the chamber, but not quite. Chamber specs way too tight, unusual but possible? I am not a Kimber expert, otherwise a weak recoil spring? Which does not have enough strength to push cartridge and slide into battery?....not likely in new gun!
Try a Wilson mag and see if your problems are diminished and check for feeding/extraction problems.
I was not there, so I am guessing a little. Good luck and keep banging away.
Another thought, 1911s are wet guns, make sure you have oiled this weapon generously, specially during break in period, after that you can back off.

[Bombard]

OP said mags were Wilsons.

Mic the chamber and expended brass, see how tight it is.

[WKC]

The feed cycle of an O-Frame is not straight into the pipe. The round bounces against several surfaces before settling into the chamber. The initial point of contact is between the nose of the round and the ramp just below the chamber. It then bounces up and makes contact with the top of the chamber. It then pivots around the bottom of the chamber edge while the rim slides up under the extractor. A mag with followers that puts the round in better alignment will help with feeding. However, the round still need to drag along the barrel ramp and the top of the chamber so any roughness will slow the cycle down. Any roughness on the surface of the breech face or extractor not smooth or too tight will slow it down. That is why they always polish the feed ramp and the breech face and tune the extractor for feeding problems.

I have been told that Kimber chambers run on the tight side. A certain armorer for a PD in southern California will run a chamber reamer through the Kimber barrel before he issues the gun to his officers.

It may be a single issue or a combination of the above. Best course of action is to finish off the break in period and note all the issues you have with it. Besides the feeding problems, pay particular attention the smoothness of the trigger (no creep and a clean, crisp break, not too much over travel), smoothness of the thumb safety, smoothness of the mag release, grip safety catching the trigger. Write all your observations up and ship is along with the gun back to Kimber for warranty service.

[Trinity]

Originally Posted by WKC

The feed cycle of an O-Frame is not straight into the pipe. The round bounces against several surfaces before settling into the chamber. The initial point of contact is between the nose of the round and the ramp just below the chamber. It then bounces up and makes contact with the top of the chamber. It then pivots around the bottom of the chamber edge while the rim slides up under the extractor. A mag with followers that puts the round in better alignment will help with feeding. However, the round still need to drag along the barrel ramp and the top of the chamber so any roughness will slow the cycle down. Any roughness on the surface of the breech face or extractor not smooth or too tight will slow it down. That is why they always polish the feed ramp and the breech face and tune the extractor for feeding problems.

I have been told that Kimber chambers run on the tight side. A certain armorer for a PD in southern California will run a chamber reamer through the Kimber barrel before he issues the gun to his officers.

It may be a single issue or a combination of the above. Best course of action is to finish off the break in period and note all the issues you have with it. Besides the feeding problems, pay particular attention the smoothness of the trigger (no creep and a clean, crisp break, not too much over travel), smoothness of the thumb safety, smoothness of the mag release, grip safety catching the trigger. Write all your observations up and ship is along with the gun back to Kimber for warranty service.

WKC, you are THE master! You sure know your stuff - Dr. O-Frame!

[X-ffdo]

Ok. Good!.
So making sure that the ramp is polished and clean will help. I know that the bullet nose will drag on the ramp as it slides into position, but it should not catch. Keep banging away and I am sure those tight tolerances will cause the parts to mate into each other as you have more cycles. That is why during break in period lubrication will be important.
There are more qualified people here to guide you with your new gun.

[PirateQueen]

Originally Posted by Trinity

WKC, you are THE master! You sure know your stuff - Dr. O-Frame!

He sure does.
Master O-Frame
I was having problems with mine and he was able to determine what was wrong with it.

[TaxMan]

Originally Posted by ordu

I'm starting to think I am either doing something extraordinarily stupid or there is a problem. 600 rounds seems like a lot of ammo to blow through the thing and still have these problems.

It's not you, it's that dadburn CDP. Tell you what, I can help you out with that. I'll give you $50 and I'll pay the DROS and you won't have any more CDP problems.

[RAD-G27]

Send it back to the factory. I'm 100% no malfunction through 700+ rounds in my Ultra CDP II. Of all four of my 1911's I've only had problems with one, sent it back to Colt, and no problems since. And in both my Kimbers, I have just used factory Mags.

[RAD-G27]

Originally Posted by TaxMan

It's not you, it's that dadburn CDP. Tell you what, I can help you out with that. I'll give you $50 and I'll pay the DROS and you won't have any more CDP problems.

I'll help with the bidding war, make it $100. Do I hear $150?

[Glock32]

$200.

There is a slow motion video out there (sorry, no link) showing in detail how a 1911 strips a fresh round from the magazine and feeds it into the barrel. WKC used the word 'bouncing' and that is exactly what it looks like.

I understand that you are bummed out about the gun not working as expected. A 3 inch 1911 is a stretch of the original design. There is not much room for error. Kimber will make it right.

[WKC]

The feeding cycle can also be observed in slow motion using dummy rounds with the recoil spring removed. Just cycle the slide by hand but you have to keep pressure on the round or it will fail to cycle in slow mo.

[PUNK]

I'll buy it from you

Another hint that that CCWI told me....

When you have the magazine loaded, grab the side of the mag and tap it like 3-4 times on your hand to make sure the ammo lines up and isn't facing different ways.

then stick it in your CDP and blast away

**Also, i know you said you oiled everything to specs. Did you put enough oil in the rails where the slide moves back. I find when not lubricated enough, it FTF especially on 1st round.

How much do you want for the CDP

[PHM]

Kimbers are not good for the weak writsted either, if you have a weak wrist or weak grip, make sure you have a first grip and see if it makes a difference. Many of the issues some people have with kimber is due to this. Wilson mags made all the difference in the world for me and the break in period is crucial.

[RAD-G27]

Originally Posted by PHM

Kimbers are not good for the weak writsted either, if you have a weak wrist or weak grip, make sure you have a first grip and see if it makes a difference. Many of the issues some people have with kimber is due to this. Wilson mags made all the difference in the world for me and the break in period is crucial.

Someone posted a limp wrist video test on a number of guns after I made that suggestion on one of the previous threads. All the 1911 style ones had no problems, but don't have a limp wrist with a Glock, they will jam on most rounds.

Here's the link again for those that missed it the first time:
YouTube - Testing several handguns for "limp wristing"