Metal Targets can be Fun and Dangerous!

[El Gato]

So... I was teaching a Shotgun class today and had started the day by loading old Mr. 10mm glock as a carry gun. The ammo was range only stuff, a mix of 180 gr. fmj and HP factory reloads loaded to mild velocities. Something happened and now I have some observations and a warning for those of you who shoot at makeshift ranges in the hills and desert. Hopefully my mistake will be a help to you all.

I have some very heavy plates for shotgun classes. They are knockdown type plates, set at an angle on a baseplate. They are designed to be knocked down off of a rebar built pedestal. The weigh about 35 lbs each. Each plate has a "hard face" and the back is softer. The metal came from a fabrication company and they were free. They are really hard on the face. So... one of my students center-punches a plate at about 10 yeards with a full power slug...causing the hard face to depress into the soft backing about a 16th of an inch... no problem as it now becomes useless for short range use... but lesson learned... slugs and hard buckshot at full velocities can pit steel...Ok... got that one....

So class was over and I went to the bay next to mine and was going to shoot some poppers. 5 Dogs range has about 10 bays set aside for the 5 Dogs Action Shooters Club and my company shares range space with them. They had left some poppers staked out for a match they are setting up for in June. I cleared the range and started to shoot the poppers, My first shot on a popper, at about 15 yards, was dead center. The bullet, one of the hp rounds, bounced back and took a chunk of skin and cartiledge (sp? - where is the dang spell checker on this website anyway!) outa my left ear. (being it was my left ear I am fine... had it been my right ear, why my whole self mighta been outa balance... politically speaking... get it right ear...haha ... never mind)

Further examination of the popper, an expensive full size popper by the way, showed several dings in it where someone had shot the thing with a .308 at least... So I'm bleeding and the gun gets holstered and 3 hours later is still hurts.

So... Here is what I am reminded of: Steel that is less than dead flat and hard is not to be shot at anything like close range... 200 yards away... no problem.

Use quality practice targets. I have a number of ones from action target that are really reasonably priced... they were set up. I could have shot at them! Here is the link: Steel Targets by Action Target: PT Practice Target - Portable Target Applications for Indoor and Outdoor Shooting Ranges

Take a first aid kit to the range, especially if you are shooting in a remote location... I had lots of bandages for little cuts and "owies". I have a gunshot trauma kit with quick-clot. I don't have something intermediate with some gauze pads and tape for what happened today.

Wear good eye protection... I was wearing my wraparound Rudy Project polycarbonate glasses with the bi-focal inserts, also polycarbonate. If the bullet had been 2 inches over it would have punched me in the eye! Hello!

I am a big fan of shooting unknown range courses and we can do alot of that at 5 Dogs. I know alot of people who set up their own ranges in the Desert and the mountains. It is fun to shoot at steel and stuff... but it ain't fun when someone gets hurt...as Clint Smith says Duly Noted

[akulahawk]

Have a good selection of non-stick and gauze pads. My recommendation is to use the non-stick immediately next to a wound. Gauze pads on top if you need to absorb more blood. When it comes time to remove all that stuff, you don't want threads from the gauze to be stuck in the wound. You do NOT want those picked out of the wound. It really hurts...

There is a lot in the first aid kits that you buy in a store that you really do not need. I much prefer to build my own.

[El Gato]

Originally Posted by akulahawk

Have a good selection of non-stick and gauze pads. My recommendation is to use the non-stick immediately next to a wound. Gauze pads on top if you need to absorb more blood. When it comes time to remove all that stuff, you don't want threads from the gauze to be stuck in the wound. You do NOT want those picked out of the wound. It really hurts...

There is a lot in the first aid kits that you buy in a store that you really do not need. I much prefer to build my own.

Galls sells a gunshot trauma pack that is really slick... gloves,scissors, gauze pads, pressure bandage, sealing bandage thingee to seal a sucking chest wound and some quick-clot. It fits in a bdu pocket. We keep it in the range box with the staplers and tape etc...

I am mostly interested in stopping the bleeding and moving to a real doc!

About 6 months or so ago, one of the guys at the range was shooting his 50 bmg single shot.. the kind that has a cannon breach, the recoil pad is part of the breach... he was shooting handloads and the gun came apart in his hands... the breach went through his shoulder and impacted his corvette 20 yards behind him, severing the Brachial artery (geez it think it was the brachial).. there were two trauma nurses on the range and they took turns pinching off the brachial artery and saved the guys life... the chopper took him out and they re-attached all of the broken bits... he was also like diabetic or something and was hopitalized for weeks... 5-6 months later he was back at the range... scary stuff...

I had a client have a heart attack on the range once... flew him out too... also scary stuff....

[tango-52]

Originally Posted by El Gato

,the breach went through his shoulder and impacted his corvette 20 yards behind him,...

What about the corvette?


Glad to hear you're okay!

[akulahawk]

If you're going out of the "normal" area, consider bringing along a cheap, but functional GPS. Helicopter services have GPS units onboard and if you can give them a lat/long they can fly right to you. This would be not needed for places that have an actual landline. Consider adding clamps to the kit if you're going someplace really remote. They can be used to do what those trauma nurses did and they do not get tired.

[El Gato]

Originally Posted by tango-52

What about the corvette?

A bright yellow Z06... was brand new as I recollect...Hmmmm nice dent in the left rear quarter panel...

[El Gato]

Originally Posted by akulahawk

If you're going out of the "normal" area, consider bringing along a cheap, but functional GPS. Helicopter services have GPS units onboard and if you can give them a lat/long they can fly right to you. This would be not needed for places that have an actual landline. Consider adding clamps to the kit if you're going someplace really remote. They can be used to do what those trauma nurses did and they do not get tired.

Good advice.. I think I am going to do some research on Galls website and build a trauma pack that can be taken hunting too... IF I EVER GET TIME TO GO HUNTING AGAIN....

[akulahawk]

Galls is a good site for the bags, but also look at life-assist for some of the supplies. They have bags on the Life-assist site too. The Asherman Chest Seal is a good device for smaller penetrating chest wounds. If you know how to make a butterfly valve, you wouldn't need the ACS device.

When it comes to building a kit, I look at what I need it for and go from there. I have smaller kits that work great to get me to a nearby ambulance. I have one that works great if I need to turn a car into a basic life support ambulance.. minus the oxygen... It's all in what you need. Like to have is different and unnecessarily heavy.

[El Gato]

Originally Posted by akulahawk

Galls is a good site for the bags, but also look at life-assist for some of the supplies. They have bags on the Life-assist site too. The Asherman Chest Seal is a good device for smaller penetrating chest wounds. If you know how to make a butterfly valve, you wouldn't need the ACS device.

When it comes to building a kit, I look at what I need it for and go from there. I have smaller kits that work great to get me to a nearby ambulance. I have one that works great if I need to turn a car into a basic life support ambulance.. minus the oxygen... It's all in what you need. Like to have is different and unnecessarily heavy.

Thanks for the advice...
I'm thinking I need to slightly increase my range kit....

And I need a kit that I can take hunting...one for the backpack and one for the campsite...

[akulahawk]

You're welcome. I have been an EMT (at the minimum) for about 10 years and have been involved in Sports Medicine since 1991. My requirements, experience, and training are quite different from most people on this board in this area. What this means is that what I need in a kit would possibly be quite different than what someone else needs. That being said, I'm not a Doc and I don't claim to be one.

[1buba]

Originally Posted by El Gato

So... I was teaching a Shotgun class today and had started the day by loading old Mr. 10mm glock as a carry gun. The ammo was range only stuff, a mix of 180 gr. fmj and HP factory reloads loaded to mild velocities. Something happened and now I have some observations and a warning for those of you who shoot at makeshift ranges in the hills and desert. Hopefully my mistake will be a help to you all.

I have some very heavy plates for shotgun classes. They are knockdown type plates, set at an angle on a baseplate. They are designed to be knocked down off of a rebar built pedestal. The weigh about 35 lbs each. Each plate has a "hard face" and the back is softer. The metal came from a fabrication company and they were free. They are really hard on the face. So... one of my students center-punches a plate at about 10 yeards with a full power slug...causing the hard face to depress into the soft backing about a 16th of an inch... no problem as it now becomes useless for short range use... but lesson learned... slugs and hard buckshot at full velocities can pit steel...Ok... got that one....

So class was over and I went to the bay next to mine and was going to shoot some poppers. 5 Dogs range has about 10 bays set aside for the 5 Dogs Action Shooters Club and my company shares range space with them. They had left some poppers staked out for a match they are setting up for in June. I cleared the range and started to shoot the poppers, My first shot on a popper, at about 15 yards, was dead center. The bullet, one of the hp rounds, bounced back and took a chunk of skin and cartiledge (sp? - where is the dang spell checker on this website anyway!) outa my left ear. (being it was my left ear I am fine... had it been my right ear, why my whole self mighta been outa balance... politically speaking... get it right ear...haha ... never mind)

Further examination of the popper, an expensive full size popper by the way, showed several dings in it where someone had shot the thing with a .308 at least... So I'm bleeding and the gun gets holstered and 3 hours later is still hurts.

So... Here is what I am reminded of: Steel that is less than dead flat and hard is not to be shot at anything like close range... 200 yards away... no problem.

Use quality practice targets. I have a number of ones from action target that are really reasonably priced... they were set up. I could have shot at them! Here is the link: Steel Targets by Action Target: PT Practice Target - Portable Target Applications for Indoor and Outdoor Shooting Ranges

Take a first aid kit to the range, especially if you are shooting in a remote location... I had lots of bandages for little cuts and "owies". I have a gunshot trauma kit with quick-clot. I don't have something intermediate with some gauze pads and tape for what happened today.

Wear good eye protection... I was wearing my wraparound Rudy Project polycarbonate glasses with the bi-focal inserts, also polycarbonate. If the bullet had been 2 inches over it would have punched me in the eye! Hello!

I am a big fan of shooting unknown range courses and we can do alot of that at 5 Dogs. I know alot of people who set up their own ranges in the Desert and the mountains. It is fun to shoot at steel and stuff... but it ain't fun when someone gets hurt...as Clint Smith says Duly Noted

I had something like this happen years ago in a Max Josephf (TFTT) class. IIRC, we were doing dbl taps at somesteel targets at around 7 yards. The guy next to me was shooting .45 hp's. One of the hp's came apart and a piece of the jacket hit me in the belly (no comment on the size of the target). I holstered my gun and walked back about 20 yards from the line. Didn't bleed alot, but I was pulling the fragment out when Max walked up. The piece was the size of a pencil eraser. Not a big deal, but it did hurt and left some bruising and a cut about the depth of an eraser. I was not fond of Max's comments about it, and won't go to him again because of that.

[Dutchman]

Even perfectly flat steel can be dangerous. I had a gas check from a handloaded 38 round fly straight back and slice my ring finger. I thought my revolver was shaving lead until I saw the gas check on the ground next to me.

[tanker22]

Have used metal "spinners" I bought from Midway, but always at 50 yards or more. Anything closer, I use cheap rubber balloons. Keep a bag of them in my range bag along with a roll of tape. Just tape them to the paper targets.

[Dutchman]

Originally Posted by El Gato

Thanks for the advice...
I'm thinking I need to slightly increase my range kit....

And I need a kit that I can take hunting...one for the backpack and one for the campsite...

You got me thinking about upgrading my first aide kit. I go to 5 dogs once in a while to shoot clays (if you can call it that with my piss poor aim) and it is a long trip to Bako for an emergency.

I duck hunt over in Wasco and there have been a couple of fatalities in the past 5 years on one of the adjacent duck clubs. One of the fatalities occurred on a day where the ambulance got stuck in that awful Tule mud, and the fog precluded the helicopter from landing. So in some of these remote areas. it might be crucial to have some serious first aid gear...even up to and including a defibrillator, as help on the way is meaningless that far out in the styx.

[cksh8me]

The chance of the jacket seperating from the bullet is just as likely the cause of your hit as a dimpled plate.

Most indoor ranges around here and some of the outdoor ranges here don't allow hollow points because or the problem you had.