California’s Status on 1911 Style Handgun Sales

[KimberDude]

I have heard today from my local FFL that California recently passed a law that requires a magazine release safety to be on all handguns for sale by the year 2010. I have searched Google and could not find the exact law. My local FFL also informed me that since 1911 style handguns cannot fit that particular safety and that all 1911 style guns will no longer be on sale in California. I noticed on the California drop list is that most of the Kimber handguns, which are mostly, if not all are 1911, expire either the end of this year or at the very latest; 8/27/2009 is when the Rimfire gun expires on the drop list. I noticed that no other guns from Kimber have been added lately.

The question is that am I being too paranoid, or is it the truth that California will restrict sales (indirectly because of the stupid law) of 1911 style handguns? If so, I need to buy at least three more Kimbers before they expire from the drop list; two of them expiring in December this year. Wow, if this is true, this year is going to get expensive! If this law is true, then I am going to miss purchasing my Kimbers. I hope this law is not true and that I got false information.

[BonoVox]

No such law.

Current law has current handguns granfathered.

[Harry Carry]

As long as they pay to stay on the list, I believe, and are unaltered.

[BonoVox]

Yep pay to stay for 2 years at a time.

But there is not a law that takes effect in 2010 regarding this.

[sholling]

Magazine disconnects ("safeties") are required for a pistol to be added to California's list but anything currently on the approved list is grandfathered in. It sounds like he just needed to sell some 1911s.

[CCWInstructor]

The law took effect 1/1/06. Your dealer is way wrong on everything he said.

SB 489 (Stats. 2003, ch. 500) (Scott) (2003 bill - Provisions are operative beginning 1/1/2006)
! Requires that effective January 1, 2006, no semiautomatic centerfire pistol model may be
added to the roster of handguns certified for sale in California unless it has a chamber load
indicator or, if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism. Also
effective January 1, 2006, no rimfire semiautomatic pistol that has a detachable magazine
may be added to the certified list of handguns for sale in California unless it has a magazine
disconnect mechanism. Handgun models that have been placed on the roster prior to the
new requirements becoming operative may remain on the roster without these features
(PC §§ 12126, 12130).

[KimberDude]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

The law took effect 1/1/06. Your dealer is way wrong on everything he said.

SB 489 (Stats. 2003, ch. 500) (Scott) (2003 bill - Provisions are operative beginning 1/1/2006)
! Requires that effective January 1, 2006, no semiautomatic centerfire pistol model may be
added to the roster of handguns certified for sale in California unless it has a chamber load
indicator or, if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism. Also
effective January 1, 2006, no rimfire semiautomatic pistol that has a detachable magazine
may be added to the certified list of handguns for sale in California unless it has a magazine
disconnect mechanism. Handgun models that have been placed on the roster prior to the
new requirements becoming operative may remain on the roster without these features
(PC §§ 12126, 12130).

As always, thank you again CCWInstructor! I certainly appreciate it!

I am now relieved. Hopefully Kimber keeps renewing their drop list status so I can have more time to purchase the Kimbers I want.

[maldos]

I have a 1911 style handgun with a magazine safety release. It's called a Browning Hi-Power. Purchased in 1972, new for $151.00, it was sold with a magazine release safety which was activated when the magazine was ejected. I believe, correct me if wrong, that it was thought that if a BG got a hold of a gun during a struggle, it would become inoperative if the mag release button was depressed. Most didn't like the feature, and most disconnected the release because during mag changes, your gun, although it had a live round present, couldn't be fired .

There are instructions on the interned on just how to deactivate this feature.

I can't believe that any police department would favor this kind of safety.

Flame away CCWI

[sholling]

Originally Posted by maldos

Most didn't like the feature, and most disconnected the release because during mag changes, your gun, although it had a live round present, couldn't be fired .

And because it (Browning implementation only) messes with the trigger pull.

There are instructions on the interned on just how to deactivate this feature.

And inexpensive kits.

I can't believe that any police department would favor this kind of safety.

It's actually favored for duty guns by a fair percentage of LEOs. The reason as you explained is that it allows them to drop the magazine during a struggle and render the weapon useless. But that's not why it was added to California's requirements. The reason they added it was to placate a grieving father. A parent had left his or her pistol accessible and unsecured and it was found by a kid who removed the magazine but forgot to check the chamber before handing it over to a friend to examine. I may not have all of the details 100% exactly correct but that's the gist of it. Sad but a poor way to correct for parents not properly teaching their kids to keep their paws off and for not securing their weapons.

[KimberDude]

I spoke to Alan from Kimber Sales this morning and he informed me that there are plans to renew all handguns that are currently on the drop list. Whew! Thanks for the info everyone. I am glad I do not have to rush in buying my next three Kimbers.

[maldos]

Originally Posted by sholling

And because it (Browning implementation only) messes with the trigger pull.

And inexpensive kits.

It's actually favored for duty guns by a fair percentage of LEOs. The reason as you explained is that it allows them to drop the magazine during a struggle and render the weapon useless. But that's not why it was added to California's requirements. The reason they added it was to placate a grieving father. A parent had left his or her pistol accessible and unsecured and it was found by a kid who removed the magazine but forgot to check the chamber before handing it over to a friend to examine. I may not have all of the details 100% exactly correct but that's the gist of it. Sad but a poor way to correct for parents not properly teaching their kids to keep their paws off and for not securing their weapons.

You are correct for items 1 & 2. #3 - I didn't know that. Thanks.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by sholling

The reason they added it was to placate a grieving father. A parent had left his or her pistol accessible and unsecured and it was found by a kid who removed the magazine but forgot to check the chamber before handing it over to a friend to examine. I may not have all of the details 100% exactly correct but that's the gist of it. Sad but a poor way to correct for parents not properly teaching their kids to keep their paws off and for not securing their weapons.

The grieving father is a state assemblyman, he introduced the bill.

[sholling]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

The grieving father is a state assemblyman, he introduced the bill.

That's interesting. My memory is going. I'd been under the idea that it was a newpaperman but this makes more sense.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by sholling

It's actually favored for duty guns by a fair percentage of LEOs. The reason as you explained is that it allows them to drop the magazine during a struggle and render the weapon useless.

I strongly dissagree with this statement. As a trainer, I and others teach weapon retention. We also teach gun take aways. It fixes a problem that doesn't exist.

Bad guys know the CHP uses Smith and Wessons with the mag disconnect. Their academy has document cases were bad guy have cleared clver and advanced during a reload.

[sholling]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

I strongly dissagree with this statement. As a trainer, I and others teach weapon retention. We also teach gun take aways. It fixes a problem that doesn't exist.

Bad guys know the CHP uses Smith and Wessons with the mag disconnect. Their academy has document cases were bad guy have cleared clver and advanced during a reload.

I don't doubt you a bit on the tactical implications and that a lot of LEOs wouldn't have a magazine disconnect if they could avoid it. But there are still a fair number that like it and I've discussed it with them in other forums over the years. Let's just say that all but one of my handguns lack this "feature" and I will fix it soon enough. It's interesting to note that it's recently become almost impossible to find a replacement M&P sear block without it. Six months ago they were a $25 drop in. Sigh...