OC lesson learned???

[EM2]

Originally Posted by sholling

I hope you're right even though I've moved away form OC (born and raised). But to the best of my knowledge no incumbent sheriff has lost an election anywhere in SoCal in decades. Hopefully you have a great candidate in mind but with candidacy closed to the general public it's going to be tough to find somebody that can defeat her sheriffness.

Please excuse my ignorance, but when did this law go into effect, and why has it not been challenged in court?
Come on now, any two bit law student can see that on it's face this type of law goes against basic democratic principles. Even the Presidency is open to every natural born citizen, (and aparrently Obama) who is over 35 yrs.
What would it take to overturn this?
If elected offices are not open to the public then we are no better than the commis & socialists.

[CCWInstructor]

To be elected to a LEO office, you need to be a LEO. Whats the problem with that?

[sholling]

It's a law I've been against since Brad Gates got it though. You don't need to be a general to be commander in chief of the US military and you should not have to be a LEO to run for sheriff. Thats the American way.

[akulahawk]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

To be elected to a LEO office, you need to be a LEO. Whats the problem with that?

I see it as a pretty darned good idea, actually. I believe (could be wrong) that you must obtain the Basic Certificate within 2 years of being elected/appointed... now here's the rub with that... who would have time to attend a basic academy, go through the FTO time, and get passed out of Probation and achieve the Basic Certificate while serving as the Chief of Police or Sheriff? NOBODY CAN!!! Therefore, you have to be a LEO first...

[sholling]

Originally Posted by akulahawk

I see it as a pretty darned good idea, actually. I believe (could be wrong) that you must obtain the Basic Certificate within 2 years of being elected/appointed... now here's the rub with that... who would have time to attend a basic academy, go through the FTO time, and get passed out of Probation and achieve the Basic Certificate while serving as the Chief of Police or Sheriff? NOBODY CAN!!! Therefore, you have to be a LEO first...

Well keep in mind that the law was originally created to keep a sitting judge from defeating a an incumbent sheriff that he felt was corrupt. I would think that a judge as enough knowledge of the law to be sheriff.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by sholling

It's a law I've been against since Brad Gates got it though. You don't need to be a general to be commander in chief of the US military and you should not have to be a LEO to run for sheriff. Thats the American way.

Sir, It sounds like you have a problem with Brad, take it up with him. To run for sheriff in California, you need to have a CA-POST Intermediate certificate. That is a BA with four years experience.

The commander in chief does not run the military in the day to day operations, a sheriff does run his/her department.

[Bad Horse]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

Sir, It sounds like you have a problem with Brad, take it up with him. To run for sheriff in California, you need to have a CA-POST Intermediate certificate. That is a BA with four years experience.

The commander in chief does not run the military in the day to day operations, a sheriff does run his/her department.

Is that restriction common in other states?

And has there been a non-elected incumbent Sheriff defeated in an election in CA?

[EM2]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

Sir, It sounds like you have a problem with Brad, take it up with him. To run for sheriff in California, you need to have a CA-POST Intermediate certificate. That is a BA with four years experience.

The commander in chief does not run the military in the day to day operations, a sheriff does run his/her department.

I did not read into sholling's comment that he has a problem with Brad Gates, just that the law was pushed through to keep a certain sheriff in office. This is WRONG and corrupt. We as a free and open society should not be passing laws that help keep certain individuals in office. If there was not a problem in the past then why change it? Additionaly, is there a similar law for the various offices of judges? And then with your argument why not a prerequisite for supervisor, mayor, city council, etc. As is evidenced currently and in the past, any nitwit can run for office why should the sheriff's office be special.

[sholling]

Originally Posted by Bad Horse

Is that restriction common in other states?

And has there been a non-elected incumbent Sheriff defeated in an election in CA?

Leaving out the history of the law out of genuine respect for CCWI whom I've had the privilege of meeting. Has any incumbent sheriff been defeated since the general public were barred from running for office? We all saw what happened to the deputy that ran against Corona... He was relieved of his post and transfered as punishment for running against his boss. Punished with the blessing of the Board of Supervisors.

The lesson learned is that unless OC finds a well heeled deputy willing commit career suicide on the off chance of winning, or a ready to retire senior LEO from another agency, then OC is pretty much stuck with who they got. Sorry I can't put a more positive spin on it but I lived in OC most of my life and that's just how the system is rigged to work. Perhaps the best bet is to try to turn her away from the darkside and convince her to lighten up on the permit process.

[NSP]

Originally Posted by AF_int1n0

OK this may very well get me flamed and possibly booted but I have to get this off my chest.


I believe that there is a lesson to be learned from what happened in OC.
You lost your good (issuing) sheriff and had him replaced with an Elitist turd from LA. I know alot of you are going to be losing your permits.
I know most of you are saying, well we'll replace her in 2010, but then what? What happens if you don't replace her.
What happens if you get what happened in Sac with a Sheriff that promises permits but then lies. I think what happened in OC is good reason to unify for Statewide CCW.

I was looking at your CCW list from 07 and you have 40,000 permits. Total, Statewide total. I'm pretty sure Tampa has more permits in that city..
Those consist of a couple of counties that give em out to anyone. (equally)
And a hand full of elites in most every other county. The feeling I get from this forum is there are two types of people here.. OC permit holders, LA, Bay Area, etc. Non permit holders and a couple of NorCal permit holders. The LA, Bay Area, Etc. are screwed because they will never go shall issue without State wide legislation..Those in counties lucky enough to have Shall issue CCW don't worry about State wide CCW because "they got theirs" So they discuss the best 1911 for a trip to get sushi. Sadly those folks probably need them less than a lot of folks in this state.


The point is without fixing this issue at the State level, your rights are forever at the mercy of some low level elected schmuck. Those of you lucky enough to have a permit; Stop screwing your neighbor!! I know you got yours, yes you totally rock!! It feels good to be a citizen (thats the way alot of Americans feel. But realize what happened in OC can happen anywhere in the State, and at the whim of some guy, you don't know.

I know I will never have a permit.. (Even If I lived in a moderately CCW friendly county) But, I have at a maximum of 17 months left here. (less if I can work a 365 with follow on..) But it kills me to see this infighting amongst like minded people.

That's all I have.. I'm going to don my Flame suit now.

Yes I have a CCW permit and live in a "NorCal" county. But don't think that I sit idly by.

[RomanDad]

Originally Posted by EM2

Additionaly, is there a similar law for the various offices of judges?

Yes.... You have to be a California attorney for at least ten years to be a Superior Court judge (or five years to be a municipal court judge) And thats in the California State Constitution.

And you have to be a California Attorney for at least five years to be California Attorney General.


Im qualified to be a Judge (or the attorney General of the State for that matter) but I wouldn't know the first thing about being a Sheriff and running an LE Department.

[Gr8OCGuy]

RD - 'knowing nothing about running a LE' operation = based upon recent actions of our new Sheriff...I think you meet the standard of knowledge that the BOS used to pick the Queen....

[Ken_In_Colo]

1. Regarding CCW Revocations: How much money, in fees, did you folks put up for your CCWs? Since you did nothing [wrong] to contribute to the revocation, you should demand a pro-rated refund for the remainder of the time left on your CCWs. You acted in good faith when you paid the county these fees. You paid x amount of $.$$ for a 2 year permit. You're not getting to keep it for the full two years. You should get [part of] the fees back.
2. Our Founding Fathers saw the need for civilian oversight of the military. I certainly believe that applies to para-military, government funded, organizations -like the sheriff's office- as well. I agree w/those who don't believe that 'Sheriff' should be the exclusive domain of a certified LEO. Other non LEO duties include : Service of process; Accepting bail for prisoners in his custody; Conducting sales of seized and unclaimed properties. I would think an attorney could indeed perform these functions better than a LEO.
3. Even though the current Sheriff was appointed, is there anything which would preclude her recall?
4. Assuming Mike Carona is acquitted of all charges, could he get elected in 2010?

[PirateQueen]

Originally Posted by RomanDad

Yes.... You have to be a California attorney for at least ten years to be a Superior Court judge (or five years to be a municipal court judge) And thats in the California State Constitution.

And you have to be a California Attorney for at least five years to be California Attorney General.


Im qualified to be a Judge (or the attorney General of the State for that matter) but I wouldn't know the first thing about being a Sheriff and running an LE Department.

Hey you got my vote! do I hear a I'll second that. Lets recall Mr. Brown and replace him with our own RD

[TaxMan]

Originally Posted by PirateQueen

Hey you got my vote! do I hear a I'll second that. Lets recall Mr. Brown and replace him with our own RD

Seconded!