Can you carry in a bar if you work there?

cksh8me · #1 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 07:31 AM

I know you can't carry as a patron carry in a bar. As an employee with the employers permission is there any reason you couldn't carry in a bar?

What about if you own the bar?

G36 Steve · #2 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 08:25 AM

The owner doesn't need a CCW in his place of business. An employee would.

The Penal Code does not address CCW in a bar so it's probably legal BUT!
Your issuing agency may have provided you with restrictions or "Terms of License Acknowledgment". In addition, the CDOJ Standard CCW Application section 4, pg. 6 (License Conditions and Restrictions) addresses this issue in the 2nd bullet.

While you may not get arrested you may get your CCW revoked for being in a place while armed where the primary purpose is dispensing alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption.

Suggestion: Don't become a test case.

Tom98915 · #3 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 08:35 AM

Maybe the OWNER of the bar should ask the local sheriff if his bar employees can legally carry WHILE WORKING IN his place of business. Yes? No? Maybe?

G36 Steve · #4 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom98915

Maybe the OWNER of the bar should ask the local sheriff if his bar employees can legally carry WHILE WORKING IN his place of business. Yes? No? Maybe?

They cannot legally "carry" a loaded gun in the business regardless of what the owner or the Sheriff "says". Employees can "have" (access) a loaded gun with the owner's permission but they cannot "carry" a loaded gun nor can they carry a concealed gun without a CCW.
Suggested read - "How to Own a Gun & Stay Out of Jail" by John Machtinger. This topic is covered in detail with legal precedent on pgs. 47-50.

Tom98915 · #5 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 10:49 AM

I was in doubt which is why I mentioned they should ask the local sheriff who enforces the laws there.

G36 Steve · #6 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom98915

I was in doubt which is why I mentioned they should ask the local sheriff who enforces the laws there.

Gun lawyers are a much better source of information regarding gun laws than cops.

Don't believe me? Ask the lawyer who's card your carry in your wallet, the one who's going to defend you when you become a test case.

Tom98915 · #7 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G36 Steve

Gun lawyers are a much better source of information regarding gun laws than cops.

Don't believe me? Ask the lawyer who's card your carry in your wallet, the one who's going to defend you when you become a test case.

Like my signature says:

Will Rogers said, "There's three kinds of people.
There's them that can learn from others,
There's them that can learn from books,
And there's them that has to whiz on the electric fence for themselves."
I prefer to be one of the first two kind and to learn from others' mistakes.

Let someone else be the test case while I sit back & observe.

PHM · #8 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G36 Steve

They cannot legally "carry" a loaded gun in the business regardless of what the owner or the Sheriff "says". Employees can "have" (access) a loaded gun with the owner's permission but they cannot "carry" a loaded gun nor can they carry a concealed gun without a CCW.
Suggested read - "How to Own a Gun & Stay Out of Jail" by John Machtinger. This topic is covered in detail with legal precedent on pgs. 47-50.

How do you explain a gun shop where all the employees are armed?

**CCWInstructor** · #9 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHM

How do you explain a gun shop where all the employees are armed?

Easy! It is not covered by penal code. Penal Code does address business owners. So PC says it's legal for owners and doesn't mention employees. What does that tell you?

No! They did not forget to mention employees.

paul0660 · #10 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 04:02 PM

Yes, the book has an opinion, based on the imagined difference between "have" and "carry". As I have posted before, one would have to kick the pistol from place to place to avoid "carrying" it.

As for the cop vs. lawyer thing, neither of them are going to go to jail for you if they are wrong. The cop, however, will not charge for it.

G36 Steve · #11 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHM

How do you explain a gun shop where all the employees are armed?

If it's also a gun range that's easy. There's an exception in 12031 for it.
If it's not a gun range, perhaps they are expecting to use the Reasonable Belief of Immediate, Grave Danger exception. That didn't work out so well for Overturf.

PHM · #12 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G36 Steve

If it's also a gun range that's easy. There's an exception in 12031 for it.
If it's not a gun range, perhaps they are expecting to use the Reasonable Belief of Immediate, Grave Danger exception. That didn't work out so well for Overturf.

so much for simplicity.

. I don't understand why the penal code has to be so convoluded.

G36 Steve · #13 (**permalink**) 08-21-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul0660

Yes, the book has an opinion, based on the imagined difference between "have" and "carry". As I have posted before, one would have to kick the pistol from place to place to avoid "carrying" it.

As for the cop vs. lawyer thing, neither of them are going to go to jail for you if they are wrong. The cop, however, will not charge for it.

If the judge at your trial "imagines" there's a difference then there is a difference and he or she will let you know. BTW - Plan on spending a lot of money to find out.

IMHO - Your trial is not the best place to learn the exceptions to the Loaded Gun Law. Neither is the Internet. Ask the person who you plan to represent you if things don't work out the way you think they should.