Stoppages and Malfunctions

[WKC]

Here is a good reference with photos of different type of stoppages and malfunctions and the causes. Although the thread is based on the O-Frame, the problems illustrated can occur with ANY auto-loading pistol.

[inboost]

Nice find WKC! The only undocumented jam in that thread is the one an empty credit card makes when one tries to run it through the slot at the ammo counter

[K-dog.v3]

Thanks for sharing, being a Glock shooter I never get to see them in person.

[WKC]

I've seen Glocks malfunction. My O-Frame on the other hand is defective. No stoppages!

[akulahawk]

Originally Posted by WKC

I've seen Glocks malfunction. My O-Frame on the other hand is defective. No stoppages!

My 2 large-ish (bigger than .22) pistols have rarely, if ever, had stoppages that weren't a problem with the ammo itself malfunctioning. However, I get a LOT of practice clearing my Buckmark... It goes about 50 rounds or so before it has a FT-eject.

[1buba]

That's good stuff WhaKCy...

Seeing all the jams in picture form is indeed some online gold. However, after reading Yam's stuff off and on over the last few months, I was VERY interested in the laser grips in a couple of the pics... Up here we don't have any issues with the guns passing inspections and i've often thought it would be a bonus for a night carry/nightstand gun.

[hbliam]

Originally Posted by K-dog.v3

Thanks for sharing, being a Glock shooter I never get to see them in person.

Yep, Kia's get you from A to B but driving a Porsche is just a bit more satisfying.

G36 and Wilson CQB owner. Guess which one I like better?

[WKC]

Before this thread degenerates into a "my ... is better than yours" discussion, let recognize that an understanding of problems related to auto-loading pistols is an essential element in our education as gun operators. No gun ever created is immune from poor design, quality escapes, or Murphy.

O-Frames are an enthusiast's gun. It was designed in an era where manufacturing technology was low but hand workmanship was high. A good understanding of the gun and proper maintenance will ensure problem free operation.

There have been many reliability issues involving Glocks but due to their good PR department these have not been very public.

Bottom line is understand your weapon system. Know what to look for and know how to describe and discuss problems that may come up. If you have not experienced a stoppage or malfunction, you have not shot enough.

[1buba]

Originally Posted by WKC

If you have not experienced a stoppage or malfunction, you have not shot enough.

Classic. Very well said.

[NSP]

Originally Posted by WKC

If you have not experienced a stoppage or malfunction, you have not shot enough.

Stands and applauds

[NSP]

Originally Posted by WKC

If you have not experienced a stoppage or malfunction, you have not shot enough.

*Stands and applauds*

Great link btw

[rundmlee]

Originally Posted by WKC

...Bottom line is understand your weapon system. Know what to look for and know how to describe and discuss problems that may come up. If you have not experienced a stoppage or malfunction, you have not shot enough.

I totally agree with Wile... I primarily use Glocks, but I know that if I shoot long enough between cleanings, the chance of malfunction increases.. sooner if (God forbid) i'm using Wolf ammo. So adding to what Wile mentioned, deligent training of clearing malfunctions (Types 1-3), while not as fun as marksmanship training, is equally important.

[X-ffdo]

OK.....honest question here.
If you go to a range, you will observe the fact that the guys with the 1911 type guns seem to have the lions share of malfunctions. Typically with the extractor.
"The Glocks have had them but their PR has been able to sweep them under the rug", someone said that... am I correct, so far? I started shooting Glocks a few years ago, I do not have the level or "Deep background", on these guns.
Question. Other than the occasional so called KABOOM, situation ( Which I attribute to people that have used reloaded-leaded bullets at some point, against specs for that gun), what other endemic or generic type problems may expect from my weapon, (Glock) in the field ?. How do I prevent that?
The facts please!

[1buba]

On a side note X-fddo (not to hi-jack your question)

I think the O frame vs Glock discussion has a LOT of parallels with the PC vs Mac discussions... The most obvious difference being the amount of work that is done "under the hood." I really think that most O frame issues at the range fall in a couple of groups. a) wanna-be smiths tweaking their guns and b) cheap ammo. With glocks, there isn't NEARLY as much for a wanna be to do. IE You need to have a higher skill level to tear them all the way down, and the guys shooting steel on TV don't tweak their glocks ANY WHERE CLOSE to what the O frame guys do, so neither do the arm chair smiths. Also, maybe it is just local, but i see a LOT more guys shooting wolf ammo out of NICE O frames than I see going through glocks...

The first, I'm pretty convinced on, but the ammo one may be just something I'm seeing here.

[WKC]

I was planning to put some of my thoughts down to answer Xffdo's question. But it's late so I'll put that off till tomorrow and ramble a little here.

I then to think that the issues with the O-Frame a lot of people see and encounter is due to the lack of involvement in the gun. By that I mean they do not understand how the gun works and what you need to pay attention to. Add that to the tolerance stackup during production and you're very likely to have issues out of the box. Like I said before, the O-Frame was design in an age where manufacturing technology was not as advance as it is today. So the design depends on handwork to finish the production. On the other hand, the gun was designed to be maintained in the field with very little technical support. It is very easy to maintain and once it is tuned, it will run reliably.

The Glock on the other hand was design using modern design and manufacturing techniques so there will not be very many build issues. However, they had their design issues early on. I have also seen and read reports of Glock Perfection behaving not so perfectly.

I like to address Xffdo's question with a reference to the reliability bathtub curve. In this concept, we divide the life of a product into three regions. At the beginning, you encounter problems due to the production issues with the gun. This is also referred to as infant mortality. This is what the O-Frame is known for. But once you out grow these issues, the gun then runs reliably. This is when you run into the next region where issues will be totally random. Kind of the trout happens region. Things break because it's not your day. As the gun ages, you enter the next region where you begin to encounter issues due to wear out of parts. Things like springs and extractors are common parts to go because of age and these will be cycle related (how many rounds you put through the gun). Depending on the design of the gun, other parts may encounter the fatigue issue. The only thing we can do here is to stay on top of the maintenance of the gun. Perform periodic inspection for cracks in high stress parts. Replace springs periodically.

I'll try to put down some thoughts on what to look for in the O-Frame. I can make an attempt at the Glock based my understanding of the design but it would be better if someone else can share their experience.