Stoppages and Malfunctions

[GunSlut]

Glock has had their problems. They try and hide them.

[newshooterinca]

I own the following guns:

S&W 686 Revolver
Taurus .22LR Revolver
Sig P226
Glock 27
Kahr PM9

Oddly enough, the 686 wheelgun has had the most failures of them all. It's a recent model and a smith pulled out a diagram one day to explain exactly what's going on - it's a result of shoddy workmanship on the newer S&W revolvers. Some little cam in the mechanism that skips a beat every once in a while, about every 100 rounds or so, resulting in a weak impact of the hammer. On the rounds you can see a tiny dimple instead of the big one you see on spent casings. (This fact confirmed that selling my old 586 many years ago was dumb. Last time I sell a gun! Well except maybe the piece of junk Taurus.)

The Kahr PM9 had a few failures during the first 100 rounds or so, and none since then.

No failures at all on the Glock or Sig.

[OCRancher]

Nice link, WKC. Thanks. I need to take one of your O-Frame stripping classes one day. I did learn how to field change the extractor at the last RD, though! Took CCWI 3 seconds to replace one on an ORIGINAL 1903 model O-Frame.

[1buba]

That reminds me... i need to order a replacement. lol

[X-ffdo]

Very good quality information. Thanks, keep it coming.

[hbliam]

Originally Posted by newshooterinca

Oddly enough, the 686 wheelgun has had the most failures of them all. It's a recent model and a smith pulled out a diagram one day to explain exactly what's going on - it's a result of shoddy workmanship on the newer S&W revolvers. Some little cam in the mechanism that skips a beat every once in a while, about every 100 rounds or so, resulting in a weak impact of the hammer.

Mine does the same thing.

[WKC]

Sorry for the length. But we are “gun nuts” as some would proclaim in a somewhat derogatory tone.

Assuming that you over the break-in period and you now have what seems to be a reliable weapon. Now what? Remember, regardless of who made you weapon, age and wear knows no difference. Mechanical systems tend to break down more often as more use is put on it. So what can we do and how do we go about taking care of it.

I will approach this systematically and evaluate the use put on various parts of the gun and see what I would expect and therefore what I have to look for and how to take care of it.

Barrel Bushing
Starting from the muzzle, we have the area where the barrel exits the slide. Two configurations are presented here: bushing and bushingless. So let’s take a look at the bushing. In the bushing design, the barrel slides back and forth inside a bushing that is attached to the slide. Notice that was the slide cycles to the rear, the barrel actually pivots down. As the slide returns to battery, the barrel pivots up and locks. So the barrel will have a vertical swing inside the barrel bushing. Depending on how well this is fitted, this pivoting action will be transferred to the bushing and the connection between the bushing sleeve and the flange, the part that keeps the bushing from falling into the slide. This in turn can cause fatigue failure of the bushing. I have a SW659 that suffered such a failure. Examining the remains of the bushing revealed a defect that allowed the crack to initiate. The characteristic beach marks of fatigue failure were observed over portions of the bushing barrel with the remaining surface showing an overload failure. This occurred with around 6 thousand rounds through the gun. This was obviously a quality issue with the bushing. So if you weapon has a bushing, inspect the bushing for cracks when you have it field stripped.

Recoil Spring
Next is the recoil spring. The function of the recoil spring is to control the slide cycle. If the spring is too strong, you will have problems with the slide not traveling fully to the rear. This will affect the feeding of the gun. If the spring is too weak, the impact between the slide and frame will be increased. The assumption is that the weapon is running fine so the spring is of the correct strength. As the spring gets older, the strength will decrease. This means the slide will cycle rearward much faster than normal. You may not notice any issues with extraction but you may encounter problems with feeding. Also, the frame and slide is taking a beating. Because the slide speed has increased, this will cause a much faster impact between the brass and the ejector. So if you notice the brass going into orbit, it is a good sign you need a new spring. But it is not easy (or a good idea) to watch your own brass eject when you are shooting. Some manufacturers will state in the manual to change the springs after so many rounds. These are general conservative estimates to ensure the gun operates as close to ideal as possible. Can you go longer without problems? Probably. Springs are cheap so just have a plan to change it.

Barrel lugs
Going further back, we have the barrel lug. There are two, the upper and lower. The upper is responsible for locating the fore and aft position of the barrel relative to the slide. The bottom lug locks the barrel to the slide. As the slide returns to battery, the forward travel is stopped by a combination of the upper and lower lug making contact with something attached to the slide and frame. In the frame, this is the slide stop cross pin for the O-Frame. For the Glock, it is the slide lock. For a properly fitted gun, the load should be shared between the upper and lower lug. But unless know how to test for lug engagement, you will not know if there is a problem with the fit until something breaks. So, as a precaution, check for cracks and deformation of the slide lock (Glock). For the O-Frame, the lower lug as well as the barrel link should be inspected. A quick and dirty way to improve the vertical lock up on an O-Frame is to use a longer link. This will cause premature wear in the lower lug. Not enough of the lower lug is making contact with the slide stop and lower lug is being stopped by the frame.

Extractor
Next is the extractor. There are two types. Internal, like the O-Frame, and external, like the Glock. They both are design to grab the rim and pull the brass out of the chamber. The extractor is also suppose to hold the brass against the breach fast so the ejector can make contact to throw the brass out of the ejection port. A couple of things to look for here is a change in the shape, position, or tension of the ejector. The tension is very easy to check. If you have a relatively new gun, take an empty brass and insert it under the extractor. Feel the amount of force needed to slip it out. This is the baseline that you will use to compare with in the future. If the tension starts to weaken, time to take care of it. For the shape, it’s pretty much the same. Look at the extractor hook and see what it is suppose to look like When you inspected it later and you notice pieces missing, that is a good clue that you need a new one. As for position, this is generally an issue with the internal extractor of an O-Frame. The position in the slide is controlled by the fit of the firing pin stop. If this is loose, the extractor can rotate and the geometry of the hook relative to the rim will change and you will have extraction and feeding issues. The simple check is to see if there is any rotational movement In general, if the ejection pattern is looking erratic, you need to find out it the ejector or extractor is causing it.

Wolff Ammo. Brass and aluminum is softer than steel. Steel is not softer than steel. Steel rim banging into the steel extractor vs brass rim banging into the extractor. Is there any surprise that you will see more extractor damage using Wolff?

Ejector
That little piece of metal gets banged with every round we fire. Check for damage on the face and whether it is bent. Again, if the ejection pattern changed, something is different.

Firing pin spring
Here, the Glock and O-Frame is different in that the Glock uses the Firing pin spring to propel the firing pin into the primer while the O-Frame uses the firing pin spring to keep the firing pin away from the primer. So a weak spring will have different consequences. For the Glock, a weak spring will mean less energy will be transferred to the primer (light strikes). Springs are cheap so when you replace the recoil spring, replace the firing spring too. How often? If it’s been a couple of years, give your beloved Glock a treat.

For the O-Frame, especially the Colt pre-series 80 or the Kimber Pre-Series II, the FP spring is essential in keeping the FP from striking the primer on accident. Again, springs are cheap and I know that Wolff recoil springs comes with a FP spring so when you replace you recoil spring, change the FP spring too. It’s less than $10.

Glock Trigger group
The last thing on the Glock is the trigger group. If the trigger pull did not change significantly, no need to replace it. If you cannot get it pass inspection, put out a few bucks and get a new spring. Another area of inspection is the portion of the firing pin that the trigger bar makes contact with. Check for abnormal wear. Very little force here so I would not expect anything significant so if you see something, time to ask why.

O-Frames.
Mainspring
The mainspring usually last a very long time. A simple and fun test is the “shoot the pencil out of the barrel” test. After checking a double checking that you have an empty weapon, insert a pencil in through the muzzle with the eraser end first. With the muzzle pointing up, pull the slide back just enough to confirm the eraser is on top of the FP hole. Cock hammer and pull the trigger. The pencil should get launch several feet out of the muzzle. (If you have a titanium FP, it will not be as high.) If it flys out nice and high, don’t sweat the mainspring.

Plunger tube
The plunger tube on the left side of the gun is staked in by two pins. This has a tendency to come loose. The left stock panel is designed to support this tube. During the annual complete strip of the gun, check for and correct any looseness. While the gun is apart, check for damage and wear on the hammer hook, the sear nose, and the top of the disconnector.

Sorry again for the length. Can’t control the engineer in me.

[1buba]

Sticky nominee.....


Great post WKC

[Poogsdad]

I agree. Great Post WKC. I second the "Sticky" nomination.

[GunSlut]

Per your Request, this is now stuck.

[WKC]

I knew I would forget a few things.

O-Frame
Slide Stop
Inspect for cracks on the portion of the slide stop that contacts the mag follower. The sharp corners creates stress risers and some have been know to break there.

The rear corner of the stop where it catches the slide. The corner tend to wear. More so if you tend to shoot to slide lock and use the slide stop to drop the slide. If it gets too bad, have another slide stop fitted. However, some like the fact that the slide will drop when you slam a fresh mag in.

Firing Pin Stop
Cracks do develop in this small piece. There is a sharp corner on the lower right side (aft looking forward) which makes a good place for cracks to start.