A card to give to businesses that are anti-CCW

[DVSmith]

Originally Posted by Purple K

And your point is? Can you cite civil code that says I'm wrong?

Kind of testy for right out of the gate. Rather than do your research for you, why don't you find the PC cites for all the states that one could ccw in and show us which ones you beleive we can legally ignore the signs in and why. Then we will be better informed. Don't forget to check all codes, because this could fall under a whole range, not just firearms related.

Short of that, if a private business and/or property owner posts no weapons and you ignore the sign, you get to deal with the fallout, not me. I am happy to comply if I need access to their facility and happier to not access their facility if at all possible.

[Tachman]

Originally Posted by DVSmith

Kind of testy for right out of the gate. Rather than do your research for you, why don't you find the PC cites for all the states that one could ccw in and show us which ones you beleive we can legally ignore the signs in and why. Then we will be better informed. Don't forget to check all codes, because this could fall under a whole range, not just firearms related.

Short of that, if a private business and/or property owner posts no weapons and you ignore the sign, you get to deal with the fallout, not me. I am happy to comply if I need access to their facility and happier to not access their facility if at all possible.

I completely agree, if I were to post a sign saying no weapons which would include CCW's then that is my right as a land owner, business owner. And I would accept the few that would choose not to purchase my items or visit me.
However this is not the case, I welcome all and any CCW holders with or without weapons. Now those who do not have a CCW and carry anyway , they can stay away, PLEASE.

[3boyzmom]

Originally Posted by Purple K

And your point is? Can you cite civil code that says I'm wrong?

Taking a step back, what he meant by "some of us travel outside of California," is that in Nevada, for example, if it is posted, you may not carry there. These cards might be useful for those of us who also have a Nevada CCW.

While it may not be a WEAPONS VIOLATION to carry at a business that posts "no firearms," if you are found carrying, your issuing authority may pull your permit. I, for one, appreciate and value my CCW more than that. This discussion has been had in many forms and in many places on this forum. The purpose of the forum is not only to help people obtain their permits, but to keep them.

Additionally, you sound pretty combative. We generally don't go around trying to prove each other wrong, although you're welcome to ask for clarification on something.

[MommaJune]

Originally Posted by Purple K

And your point is? Can you cite civil code that says I'm wrong?

I, for one, would rather pick a better stage to defend my right to carry than a business that "reserves the right to refuse service to anyone" because they can, in America.

They don't want my business, they don't get my money, plain and simple.

There are much grander platforms to put that energy.

[Tom98915]

Originally Posted by 3boyzmom

Taking a step back, what he meant by "some of us travel outside of California," is that in Nevada, for example, if it is posted, you may not carry there. These cards might be useful for those of us who also have a Nevada CCW.

While it may not be a WEAPONS VIOLATION to carry at a business that posts "no firearms," if you are found carrying, your issuing authority may pull your permit. I, for one, appreciate and value my CCW more than that. This discussion has been had in many forms and in many places on this forum. The purpose of the forum is not only to help people obtain their permits, but to keep them.

Additionally, you sound pretty combative. We generally don't go around trying to prove each other wrong, although you're welcome to ask for clarification on something.

To repeat myself from the post that started this thread:

Use good judgment on whether you do hand this out or not. I like making my point but I don't plan on burning a bridge I may need later either. Diplomacy goes a long way when applied properly.

[3boyzmom]

Originally Posted by Tom98915

To repeat myself from the post that started this thread:

Use good judgment on whether you do hand this out or not. I like making my point but I don't plan on burning a bridge I may need later either. Diplomacy goes a long way when applied properly.

Purple K sounded combative. Maybe I wasn't clear. Sorry.

[akulahawk]

Originally Posted by Purple K

Those "no firearms" signs posted at the entrances of retail establishments have no legal backing. Concealled means Concealled, they should never know you're carrying. If they do happen to notice all they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse to leave they can try to have you charged with trespassing. No weapons violation.

Originally Posted by Tom98915

You seem to forget...some of us travel OUTSIDE in the free world, not California...

Originally Posted by Purple K

And your point is? Can you cite civil code that says I'm wrong?

Purple K, while "Concealed means Concealed", not every state has the same firearms laws as California. Here, if a business owner posts a "No Firearms" sign and you're discovered, you can expect to be asked to leave, and as you post, if you refuse, you can be arrested/charged with trespassing.

Again, other states do NOT have the same laws, and I'm not going to post criminal codes on this topic for all of them. Suffice it to say that other states may have it in their criminal codes that if a business owner posts a "No Firearms" sign, it can carry the weight of law behind it and you can be charged with a weapons violation as your CCW would be invalid in that posted business. Sooo... you could conceivably get a trespass charge or some kind of armed criminal trespass or an armed/concealed firearm during commission of a crime charge.

Just search for "30.06 firearm business sign" and I'm sure you'll find a LOT of hits, as I did. About 100,000 of them. That only covers a few states.

[Purple K]

The CCW classes that I have taken for California, Nevada and Utah all addressed the issues concerning "those signs." Each istructor said the same thing, "Concealled means CONCEALLED, Businesses can ask you to leave if they discover that you are carrying, It's NOT a weapons violation, If they ask you to leave and you refuse you can be charged with tresspassing." The only way that your issueing authority will know of the event is if you refuse to leave and Law Enforcement gets involved. If you let it get to that point it's your own fault.

[akulahawk]

Purple K: California, Utah, and Nevada CCW courses will be concerned with teaching people laws about California, Utah, and Nevada. While those CCW licenses are recognized formally or informally, the holder is subject to the laws of the state the holder is in, not "just" the where the license was issued from. Therefore, if you travel to a state where a license you have is recognized, it is incumbent upon YOU to learn that state's laws regarding CCW and signage and whether or not a posted sign has any effect upon whether or not your CCW is valid within that establishment.

No actual effect = no violation, you could be "trespasssed" though. Not a good end result.
Invalidates the CCW = possible/likely weapons violation. You could be treated as if you do NOT have a CCW for the duration you're in the establishment. Worse end result...

[Purple K]

Originally Posted by 3boyzmom

Purple K sounded combative. Maybe I wasn't clear. Sorry.

If I sounded combative, I'm very sorry. It was not meant to sound that way.

[Keith92555]

Originally Posted by akulahawk

Therefore, if you travel to a state where a license you have is recognized, it is incumbent upon YOU to learn that state's laws regarding CCW and signage and whether or not a posted sign has any effect upon whether or not your CCW is valid within that establishment.

+1. It is incumbent on the citizen to know the laws in the jurisdiction in which they are carrying their weapon. For example, ef you were in Az and walked into an establishment with a no weapons sign while you were packing (and someone saw your weapon), YOU WOULD BE violating a law.

Just be careful and know the rules where you are visiting. (GOOD LUCK with that in Ca)

[3boyzmom]

NV CCW laws also say that you are barred from carrying in a business where it is posted.

In Utah, businesses or other public entities (churches) can file paperwork with the state to declare their property "gun free zones." It is then illegal for you to carry there, whether it is posted or not. The LDS Church has filed that paperwork. Therefore, it would be illegal for you to carry there. That's a relatively new change to the law.

As mentioned previously, it can be tricky to keep track of all the laws. Unfortunately, CCW instructors are not always the best source of information either.

What it gets down to is this, however. On this forum, we attempt to foster a respect for the law and stay far away from "bending" the law. We also don't need anyone to be a test case. And while concealed does mean concealed, the way we conduct ourselves as CCW holders reflects on all of us. Don't carry somewhere just because you can get away with it. Carry there because it's legal and you're welcome there.

[Mad Geek]

Originally Posted by 3boyzmom

What it gets down to is this, however. On this forum, we attempt to foster a respect for the law and stay far away from "bending" the law. We also don't need anyone to be a test case. And while concealed does mean concealed, the way we conduct ourselves as CCW holders reflects on all of us. Don't carry somewhere just because you can get away with it. Carry there because it's legal and you're welcome there.

I just found a new favorite quote. Very well stated, 3BZ.

[3boyzmom]

Originally Posted by Mad Geek

I just found a new favorite quote. Very well stated, 3BZ.

Thank you kindly. *curtsey.*

[MommaJune]

Originally Posted by 3boyzmom

What it gets down to is this, however. On this forum, we attempt to foster a respect for the law and stay far away from "bending" the law. We also don't need anyone to be a test case. And while concealed does mean concealed, the way we conduct ourselves as CCW holders reflects on all of us. Don't carry somewhere just because you can get away with it. Carry there because it's legal and you're welcome there.