What would you do?

[rickr96]

You’re sitting at the counter of local diner having a late meal. The place is nearly empty, just you, the guy behind the counter, and four other people. Your spot is two empty bar stools away from the cash register.

In walks a young man (late teens, early twenty’s), average height, skinny (140/145 lb). The weather outside is mild, and he’s wearing a baggy hooded sweatshirt with the hood pulled up over his head. He approaches the counter and stands behind the cash register. He’s between you and the exit.

As the cashier approaches, the kid puts his right hand in his sweater, leans over the counter and says something you don’t quite hear. The cashier shoots you a quick look and you notice the kid’s sweatshirt pocket is pushed out from his body, nearly screaming “GUN.” (Or, is it just his finger imitating a gun?)

The cashier opens the cash register and takes step back. The kid leans over the counter and reaches with his left hand for the contents… His back is turned slightly towards you, and his “gun hand” (still in his pocket) now pointed down towards his feet. His body is between you and his "gun," and the counter is between the cashier and his "gun." 100% of his concentration is focused on the contents of the register.

You are a CCW, and you’re packing. With even minimal skills you can draw and have him in your sights before he knows what’s happening…

What would you do?

This is a long-winded (and hopefully thought provoking) question asking: As a CCW, what do you do if you witness a crime in progress, a crime with the “potential” to become violent, and one where the outcome might be completely different if you were to get involved.

I can see several scenarios… Draw and put two in his ear… Draw and challenge (hands up, etc.) Jump him; take him to the ground. You’re packing and can do… something.

But what if it’s not a real gun? What if there is no gun at all? What if this kid isn’t a BG, but rather the owner coming to collect the daily receipts? You could do nothing and maybe nobody gets hurt… (Is a little cash something to die for? To kill for?)

But what if the kid gets away this time and robs again? What if next time, he just starts shooting first and people get hurt… could you live with yourself knowing you were the guy who had a chance to stop him… but didn’t?

I’m not suggesting there is a right or wrong answer… and I’m sure the answers will be different for all of us… But still I wonder,

What would you do?

[Dan M.]

Are you sure he doesn't have a partner in there already? Crooks like to work in pairs.

If he limited himself to the contents of the register, I'd most likely pay attention and try to be a good witness.

[BonoVox]

I think in general we try to stay away from scenarios on this site. As your post has masterfully shown, they are messy to get into.

There are lots of sites dedicated to scenarios.

I will say though, your post gets the heart thumping! Carrying or not I would hate to be in that predicament.

[K-dog.v3]

I leave quietly...

[rycerz]

Be a good witness and if possible bail. Having a firearm does not make you a LEO... there might be another BG in there and your actions might cause additional trouble.

Speculation as to what to do might lead us down the wrong path here: keep in mind that CCW holders are not vigilantes and you cannot second guess an event and decide that it might turn violent. Furthermore even if there was a gun drawn, if you were to step in you might compound the problem and cause the perp to fire when he would have otherwise just left (and again lets not forget the potential sleeper).

So again, if it was me, I would not take any action till myself or someone in my company was in direct danger that could not be avoided by bailing out of there fast.

[rycerz]

Ahhh the edit time expired... anyways, I was going to say that I'm not saying that under the right threat circumstances you should not take action..... hope it makes sense being here kind of out of context in the orignal post.

[BonoVox]

Not getting into the scenario.

More on situation avoidance/awareness.

But I have heard advice to sit with you back to a wall next to an emergency exit when dining at any resturant. To the point the person will wait until a table in that area opens up or won't eat there. First sign of trouble and they are out the door and calling 911!!

[X-ffdo]

Too many unknowns......

[spc]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

Not getting into the scenario.

More on situation avoidance/awareness.

But I have heard advice to sit with you back to a wall next to an emergency exit when dining at any resturant. To the point the person will wait until a table in that area opens up or won't eat there. First sign of trouble and they are out the door and calling 911!!

Very good tip. I always try to sit so as to see what is going on and back to a wall or corner, but hadn't really thought about the back exit and my placement in regards to criminal activities, just fire.

spc

[akulahawk]

Originally Posted by X-ffdo

Too many unknowns......

I quite agree. There are too many unknowns in this scenario as you laid out to be able to determine a course of action or inaction (shoot/no-shoot). Generally, I'd lean towards being a good witness and use whatever tools I can to be as good a witness as I can. I'd probably lean that way even if I KNEW I could drop him with surgical precision and there was a clear backdrop. There's just too many unknowns in your scenario.

Believe me, I've created a few scenarios myself, but they're designed for Paramedics and EMT's...

[Quiet]

Be a good witness.

Having a CCW does not make you a LEO.

Observe and report.

[X-ffdo]

Originally Posted by Quiet

Be a good witness.

Having a CCW does not make you a LEO.

Observe and report.

Bingo!

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by rickr96

You’re sitting at the counter of local diner having a late meal. The place is nearly empty, just you, the guy behind the counter, and four other people. Your spot is two empty bar stools away from the cash register.

In walks a young man (late teens, early twenty’s), average height, skinny (140/145 lb). The weather outside is mild, and he’s wearing a baggy hooded sweatshirt with the hood pulled up over his head. He approaches the counter and stands behind the cash register. He’s between you and the exit.

As the cashier approaches, the kid puts his right hand in his sweater, leans over the counter and says something you don’t quite hear. The cashier shoots you a quick look and you notice the kid’s sweatshirt pocket is pushed out from his body, nearly screaming “GUN.” (Or, is it just his finger imitating a gun?)

The cashier opens the cash register and takes step back. The kid leans over the counter and reaches with his left hand for the contents… His back is turned slightly towards you, and his “gun hand” (still in his pocket) now pointed down towards his feet. His body is between you and his "gun," and the counter is between the cashier and his "gun." 100% of his concentration is focused on the contents of the register.

You are a CCW, and you’re packing. With even minimal skills you can draw and have him in your sights before he knows what’s happening…

What would you do?

This is a long-winded (and hopefully thought provoking) question asking: As a CCW, what do you do if you witness a crime in progress, a crime with the “potential” to become violent, and one where the outcome might be completely different if you were to get involved.

I can see several scenarios… Draw and put two in his ear… Draw and challenge (hands up, etc.) Jump him; take him to the ground. You’re packing and can do… something.

But what if it’s not a real gun? What if there is no gun at all? What if this kid isn’t a BG, but rather the owner coming to collect the daily receipts? You could do nothing and maybe nobody gets hurt… (Is a little cash something to die for? To kill for?)

But what if the kid gets away this time and robs again? What if next time, he just starts shooting first and people get hurt… could you live with yourself knowing you were the guy who had a chance to stop him… but didn’t?

I’m not suggesting there is a right or wrong answer… and I’m sure the answers will be different for all of us… But still I wonder,

What would you do?

I think most people on this board would just be a good witness (if in fact there was something going on), until their life or loved one's life was in immediate danger. A hand in a sweatshirt poses no threat, until you actually see a weapon. It could be the owner giving his son some money to go buy an iPod or something.

[CalCCW03]

We do try to stay away from "What if" scenarios on this site. It is great to see though, that none of us here are trying to be heros. Having a CCW is to protect your life and the lives of your loved ones, not so we can go around playing hero or vigilante.

With that said I am going to lock this thread but I will leave it here as it did provide some valuable advice: "BE A GOOD WITNESS"