"Don't call it bravery - Canadians have been well-trained not to fight back"

[Bombard]

Don't call it bravery: Canadians have been well-trained not to fight back
Calgary Sun, Sun, August 3, 2008


By IAN ROBINSON

As around 100 of the good citizens of Toronto cowered away as a fat cop chased a handcuffed suspect down Gould St., the woman who would become my wife three years later grabbed the bad guy by the arm, swung him into a brick wall face-first and said, "Here you go," to the panting cop.

And went to class. Never mentioned it. I found out about it from a classmate who saw it. "No biggie," Kathleen said.

About 115 lb. soaking wet back then, just another blond university chicklet with an armful of books.

A year before his lousy heart hustled him into the grave, my old man -- craggy, cranky, emphysemic -- ran the town bully out of a coffee shop in some pissant Ontario burg.

This thug walked up to two suits in their 30s at the counter. The bully was not small. He jabbed his thumb into one businessman's doughnut, scooped out the cream and licked it off. Then he did it to the second. The waitress froze. The suits backed away and walked out. As the old man put it, "They ran away slow."

Then they guy came over to my dad's table. Grinned. Bad teeth. He looked like this was the most fun he'd had all day.

My father -- past 70 and walking around in a failing body that would kill him in less than 12 months -- looked up. He had it worked out. If things went south, his coffee had been poured just moments before, lawsuit hot. Coffee in the guy's eyes, get off the one good punch he figured he still had in him after all these years, and then, wheezing for breath and trying to get a nitroglycerin pill under his tongue, "Hope for the best."

He said to the bully: "Do it and it just might be the last thing you do."

The bully's smile went away and he looked at the old man and laughed. But he left.

The old man and my mom ate lunch free that day.

The waitress told them this guy pulled this crap every couple of days. If a cop was around he wouldn't. Cops weren't often around. None of the locals, young or old, were willing to stand up to him.

Mom was furious. "Risked his life over a doughnut."

With the weariness of a man who has been explaining himself without much result to the same woman for more than half a century, the old man said, "It wasn't about the doughnut. It was about me."

Which brings us to the events that transpired last week on a Greyhound bus in Manitoba. A sleeping man was attacked with a large knife and decapitated. The passengers and driver fled. A passenger and a trucker who'd pulled over -- the heroes of the piece -- armed themselves with a crowbar and a hammer and kept the suspect in the bus.

No one knows if they'd react bravely in such a situation.

But am I wrong in assuming that somehow they quit making people like my old man and my wife?

A psychologist interviewed by Sun Media hit the proverbial nail square and true when he said: "This isn't like Texas where an old lady can pull out a gun and defend herself."

That's right. It isn't like Texas, or most of the U.S., where the right to self-defence is considered a divine gift.

In Canada, whenever some Good Samaritan tackles a fleeing rapist or mugger, the police utter the politically correct, nonsensical boilerplate: "It's important citizens don't take the law into their own hands ... bystanders should be careful not to get injured ... blah, blah, blah."

The movement to disarm the Canadian people and render them helpless to thugs is close to completion. Firearms, by law, can't be in a condition to be useful for self-defence, even in your own home. Small vials of pepper spray -- just the thing for a woman's purse -- were declared illegal. So, too, were touch-Tasers designed for self-defence. There was even a movement to ban pocket knives, and make the sale of knifeproof and bulletproof vests for civilians illegal.

Ever notice how the rate of violence has increased hand-in-hand with the disarmament movement and the expansion of criminal rights?

If you do fight back, hit a burglar or a mugger just a little too hard in self-defence, and often the best-case scenario is you spend thousands defending yourself in court.

No wonder the people on that bus fled before one turned back once armed. They did as they were trained to do, they met fully the responsibilities to one another that have been driven into them. And a police officer, in phraseology worthy of Big Brother, said: "They were very brave. They reacted swiftly and calmly in exiting the bus and as a result nobody else was injured."

Brave was the guy with the crowbar and the guy with the hammer.

I'm not willing to sit in judgment on those who fled. But I'm not willing to laud them for bravery, either.

Maybe it's time we re-thought the definition ... before it's too late.

[BonoVox]

Interesting article.

I will say if I was unarmed and with or without my family on that bus we/I would have been one of the first people out the door!!! By the time anyone realized what was going on the poor victim was dead.

They did all they could have done which was hold the lunatic inside the bus until armed back up arrived.

[Bombard]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

Interesting article.

I will say if I was unarmed and with or without my family on that bus we/I would have been one of the first people out the door!!! By the time anyone realized what was going on the poor victim was dead.

They did all they could have done which was hold the lunatic inside the bus until armed back up arrived.

+1

It's similar to the question from a couple of months ago, when the guy beat the little boy to death and no one was able to stop him. If the victim is already dead and you try to stop further attack, you're putting yourself at risk - physically and maybe legally - and not really helping anyone.

Take care of yourself first. If you CAN help, consider it.

The guys that held him in the bus showed great bravery, I'm not sure if I would have done the same thing, armed with a crowbar. Having kids to come home to have changed my thinking a lot.

The people that evacuated showed good sense.

[8-Ball]

I'm sorry, I don't agree. No one knows how they would react in a given situation and I'm not going to declare what I don't know for certain.... But, I would hope that I would make a stand and keep this guy from decapitating someone else.

Frankly, I can't believe I read this here of all places.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

Frankly, I can't believe I read this here of all places.

Ever hear the term be a good witness? Would you put your wife and or kids in jeopardy to try and save somebody?

[Bombard]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

I'm sorry, I don't agree. No one knows how they would react in a given situation and I'm not going to declare what I don't know for certain.... But, I would hope that I would make a stand and keep this guy from decapitating someone else.

Frankly, I can't believe I read this here of all places.

Would you risk leaving your wife and children behind to stop someone from desecrating a dead body?

I wouldn't. But that's just me.

Get back to me when the kids are grown, I may have a different answer.

[RomanDad]

Originally Posted by Bombard

Would you risk leaving your wife and children behind to stop someone from desecrating a dead body?

I wouldn't. But that's just me.

Get back to me when the kids are grown, I may have a different answer.

I never envision myself being on a greyhound bus.... BUT....

My wife and I have a plan for commercial AIRPLANES (which we are on too often)...

THE MOMENT a BG moves within my reach, I ATTACK... her job is to grab a leg and hang on for dear life.... Im a pretty tough person to fight, especially in an airplane and with my wife gnawing on your shin... Hopefully other passengers will join the fray ASAP. Regardless, I will NOT stop beating on the BG with whatever I have until he is COMPLETELY 100% TIED UP LIKE A CHRISTMAS PIG.... If he goes unconscious, tough crap... Im going to keep beating his lifeless ass.

[8-Ball]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

Interesting article.

I will say if I was unarmed and with or without my family on that bus we/I would have been one of the first people out the door!!! By the time anyone realized what was going on the poor victim was dead.

They did all they could have done which was hold the lunatic inside the bus until armed back up arrived.

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

Ever hear the term be a good witness? Would you put your wife and or kids in jeopardy to try and save somebody?

I agree with the "with family" component, but there were two scenarios suggested in the post.

Would it be better to witness a second atrocity or try to prevent it?

Not itching for a fight... I like it here. Just expressing a difference of opinion.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

I agree with the "with family" component, but there were two scenarios suggested in the post.

Would it be better to witness a second atrocity or try to prevent it?

Not itching for a fight... I like it here. Just expressing a difference of opinion.

I'm not one to stand by either, however, family first. If they were safe, then that maybe a different story

[akulahawk]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

I'm not one to stand by either, however, family first. If they were safe, then that maybe a different story

You and I, sir, are of a similar mind. Different background perhaps, but of a similar mind.

[PirateQueen]

Originally Posted by 8-Ball

I agree with the "with family" component, but there were two scenarios suggested in the post.

Would it be better to witness a second atrocity or try to prevent it?

Not itching for a fight... I like it here. Just expressing a difference of opinion.

I would remove myself and my family from harms way. because that second atrocity could very well be me or my family. Same if I was to try to prevent it.

[Rodentkiller]

I read the story how grusome and how true.

[IAmASensFan]

Up to the point I moved down here, if you killed someone in your home who just crawled through your window at 3am, it was likely that you would be charged with homicide, no if's, and's or butt's.

What would you expect from a country that, for the most part, won't allow it's Law Enforcement Officers to carry off duty?

I love Canada, but I'll not move back.

[1buba]

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

Up to the point I moved down here, if you killed someone in your home who just crawled through your window at 3am, it was likely that you would be charged with homicide, no if's, and's or butt's.

What would you expect from a country that, for the most part, won't allow it's Law Enforcement Officers to carry off duty?

I love Canada, but I'll not move back.

An interesting statment there...

more to discuss about it, but this is not the place. :-)

[NSP]

2 of my grandparents and one of my parents are Canadian immagrants. They wouldn't move back for the world.