Informal talk with Police Captain

[bigdave1121]

Everyday I try to convince my brothers to buy a gun, but it always falls on deaf ears. My oldest brother lives in Dallas too! I told him he could have a gun in 10 minutes if he wanted. I guess the next time the shiite hits the fan they'll all ask me to borrow a gun. If they weren't my brothers I'd just tell em to scerw off

[emc002]

Originally Posted by bigdave1121

If they weren't my brothers I'd just tell em to screw off

Naw, just charge him the "family rate" instead!

[OCRancher]

Originally Posted by Bombard

During the LA Riots, it happened to me 8 times in an hour.

I just went out and bought one.

Any anti that wants to borrow one of mine, I would view them as too irresponsible to use one, and thus they would not get the loan. Didn't have the foresight to own and train with one before, why the heck would I expose myself to your liability suddenly?!?

[savagemaxx]

Now that I have my permit, when looking for a house my wife is specifically limiting her search to counties that she knows are CCW friendly. She values it as much as I do. It is another way to help keep us and the kids safe.

I live in a nice quite neighborhood in suburbia, plenty of happy folk content with their life, bobbing though life, big smiles and wave as they cut their grass, wives all stay home and work out and walk their dogs while hubby heads of to his corporate job with the corner office driving their Hummers and Beamers. Then there's me, blue collar roots, own a construction small company, drive a lifted Chevy 1500 with 33" tires. My family kayaks and camps and shoots. We dont quite fit in. On at least 1 Saturday a month we load up the targets and head up to the range. Recently a rash of break-ins, including two attempted home invasions, has the neighborhood in a tizzy. Four times in March I would hear a knock on the door and there Bob from down the street saying "I see you guys heading out to shoot once in a while, and I was wondering, with all the recent stuff happening if you could recommend a good home defense gun." I think as the economy gets worse, and crime starts to climb, you see more "citizens" exercising their "right to bear arms".

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by savagemaxx

Now that I have my permit, when looking for a house my wife is specifically limiting her search to counties that she knows are CCW friendly. She values it as much as I do. It is another way to help keep us and the kids safe.

I live in a nice quite neighborhood in suburbia, plenty of happy folk content with their life, bobbing though life, big smiles and wave as they cut their grass, wives all stay home and work out and walk their dogs while hubby heads of to his corporate job with the corner office driving their Hummers and Beamers. Then there's me, blue collar roots, own a construction small company, drive a lifted Chevy 1500 with 33" tires. My family kayaks and camps and shoots. We dont quite fit in. On at least 1 Saturday a month we load up the targets and head up to the range. Recently a rash of break-ins, including two attempted home invasions, has the neighborhood in a tizzy. Four times in March I would hear a knock on the door and there Bob from down the street saying "I see you guys heading out to shoot once in a while, and I was wondering, with all the recent stuff happening if you could recommend a good home defense gun." I think as the economy gets worse, and crime starts to climb, you see more "citizens" exercising their "right to bear arms".

I enjoyed reading this post. Personally...I disagree with equating the current economy with an increase in crime in your suburban utopia.

It's not foreclosures or gas prices which cause home invasions (robbery) and break-ins - burglary. If you caught a burglar and asked him why he was stealing, 9 times out of 10, it's because he's supporting a drug habit. Someone who lost their home or couldn't fill up...wasn't breaking in to an "executive" home in soccer-mom territory. It's the parolee or gang banger....or the crew who discovered your area and all the oblivious people mowing their lawns.

My dad lives in the SF valley. He's 70 years old. He just had video cameras installed everywhere around and in his house. The other day...someone knocked on his door and asked for someone who doesn't live there or anywhere in the neighborhood. He followed the guy to his car, wrote down the plate, got a good look at the three other men and a woman with a nose ring, sitting in the car.

Then he had a discussion with the crew about how they were on video. The main burglar was upset that my father was writing down his license plate, so he whined and said, "how would you like it if I wrote your plates down?"
Now that's some nerve...huh? My dad says...my cars are in the garage and not in front of someone's house bothering a homeowner with a ruse at the front door.

My father (ex-LASD - now civillan who shouldn't have a gun according to this police capt.- but was and always will be.) - then burned a copy of the footage, took it down to LAPD Devonshire and included the plate number. They were very interested in the vehicle and footage. This is LAPD we are talking about....it must have been very interesting for a very good reason.

It's good that your neighbors are talking and are concerned now...about security. There's more to it than defense guns. You have to be aware...diligent and active to keep your community safe.

[Greg-Dawg®]

Originally Posted by schwani

...
The meeting was pleasant but it was very clear that CCW permits are basically off the table with the exception of meeting very strict criteria.
...

What were the strict criterias? Hmmm?

[Bombard]

Originally Posted by Greg-Dawg®

What were the strict criterias? Hmmm?

That's the $64,000 question, ain't it?

[schwani]

Originally Posted by Greg-Dawg®

What were the strict criterias? Hmmm?

I wish I knew. He didn't elaborate, other than that liability was an issue. When I asked for clarification as to what liability it became clear that it was political liability, the worry that if something went wrong, the Chief would have to answer why a permit was issued. Carrer over.

schwani

[EM2]

Originally Posted by Norseman

Welcome to the LE pecking order. But the same can be said of the private sector. If you have an issue, you won't ever get to speeak to the chaiman or head CEO of the company. These layers, or filters are in place to deny access and accountability. Remember that a LEO who promotes to Lt. or Capt. or higher didn't do this because he/she loves doing police work. The farther up you go, the further you get from the LEO job, and just become a bean counter. Want to guess how much of the brass actually shows up at range training day. About none. Although since they are sworn LEO's, they are techincally required to. Definately jump through thet hoops, ring the bell with your nose, and play the game all the way. Do ask for an interview with the chief, not a Capt. if things don't go well for your CCW. The Chief delegates this duty out to his underlings, and probably has no idea what goes on in this arena, and really does not want to know either.

This is too bad.
One way to get their attention (that is the Cheif or Sheriff) is to approch them during an election cycle. If they will not answer you questions personally at that time then you can be outspoken against them and get them removed from office.
Possibly?

[savagemaxx]

Originally Posted by SierraNevadaCCW

I enjoyed reading this post. Personally...I disagree with equating the current economy with an increase in crime in your suburban utopia.

It's not foreclosures or gas prices which cause home invasions (robbery) and break-ins - burglary. If you caught a burglar and asked him why he was stealing, 9 times out of 10, it's because he's supporting a drug habit. Someone who lost their home or couldn't fill up...wasn't breaking in to an "executive" home in soccer-mom territory. It's the parolee or gang banger....or the crew who discovered your area and all the oblivious people mowing their lawns.

It's good that your neighbors are talking and are concerned now...about security. There's more to it than defense guns. You have to be aware...diligent and active to keep your community safe.

Actaully recently it was a group of "landscapers" that had lost their jobs and had the gate codes for the community. While I agree that most HIR's are crack and meth heads supporting thier habbits, I personally feel that as the economy worsens, we are going to see a spike in basic property crimes as well as HIR's speaking as a owner of a construction company, we employ the bottom tier of employable people, that is an unfortuate fact. As money tightens up, my clients are less forthcoming with the funds to handle the needed projects. As thing tighten up, I have to keep key employees busy, there by changing my crew mix, instead to 1 foreman and 2 leads and 6 laborers, it ends up as 1 foreman, 3 leads and 3 laborers. I have to cut non necessary personel to keep us working, and keeping key personel employeed till this "hiccup" in the economy passes. I can gaurantee that the lower tier of my employees, does not have any problems stealing to survive. This is evident by the fact that four of my former "laborers" are in deep trouble for "borrowing" the copper out of four AC units and all the condensation lines on a large roof we recently completed. They all passed the random drug screening that we have, so i dont think it was to support a habbit, i think it was just an easy way to make a few bucks.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by savagemaxx

Actaully recently it was a group of "landscapers" that had lost their jobs and had the gate codes for the community. While I agree that most HIR's are crack and meth heads supporting thier habbits, I personally feel that as the economy worsens, we are going to see a spike in basic property crimes as well as HIR's speaking as a owner of a construction company, we employ the bottom tier of employable people, that is an unfortuate fact. As money tightens up, my clients are less forthcoming with the funds to handle the needed projects. As thing tighten up, I have to keep key employees busy, there by changing my crew mix, instead to 1 foreman and 2 leads and 6 laborers, it ends up as 1 foreman, 3 leads and 3 laborers. I have to cut non necessary personel to keep us working, and keeping key personel employeed till this "hiccup" in the economy passes. I can gaurantee that the lower tier of my employees, does not have any problems stealing to survive. This is evident by the fact that four of my former "laborers" are in deep trouble for "borrowing" the copper out of four AC units and all the condensation lines on a large roof we recently completed. They all passed the random drug screening that we have, so i dont think it was to support a habbit, i think it was just an easy way to make a few bucks.

You made a good point. I guess it depends on your industry and specifics.
Keep safe over there and hope it gets better for you.

[Craneboy]

Getting back to the original issue posed here, Schwani, why are you even bothering to ask a City PD Chief for a CCW when you live in the SF Bay Area? Alameda County SD has an application process and has issued permits for good cause to private citizens, contact them and ask for an application. I have found Alameda County Sheriff's Department personnel to be the ultimate in courtesy and professionalism in all my CCW dealings with them.

[schwani]

Originally Posted by Craneboy

Getting back to the original issue posed here, Schwani, why are you even bothering to ask a City PD Chief for a CCW when you live in the SF Bay Area? Alameda County SD has an application process and has issued permits for good cause to private citizens, contact them and ask for an application. I have found Alameda County Sheriff's Department personnel to be the ultimate in courtesy and professionalism in all my CCW dealings with them.

A good question. I figured I'd start in the town I live. Perhaps a waste of time. But also, as rickr96 said, the more people talk to their local police about this the better. More importantly, I was curious to see first hand what the attitude of the local Police managment was. I did accomplish that.

I've been hesitant to actually apply only because I do worry that a denial might be viewed negatively in the future, should there be reason to review this.

All said, I may contact the Alameda County Sheriff's Department next.

Either that or wait for national reciprocity.....

schwani

[calmp9]

Originally Posted by schwani

In trying to understand what it might take to get a CCW in my town I tried to schedule an appointment with the Chief of Police. Although the Chief didn’t call me back I did get a call from one of his Captains and was able to meet with him.
The meeting was pleasant but it was very clear that CCW permits are basically off the table with the exception of meeting very strict criteria.
While this was clear to me even before I spoke with the Captain, I was disappointed with the responses or reasoning, two in particular.

He saw no reason, what so ever, that anyone outside law enforcement would ever need to, or even should carry a weapon.
He also said, that as far as he’s concerned, any armed civilian is just another threat to his safety.
He was careful to point out that these are his opinions and that only the Chief could grant the permit, but at the same time it was very clear that I had no chance in being granted a permit. He didn’t say not to apply, just implied that I shouldn’t bother.

I thought I’d share this here.

schwani

Why is that law enforcement officers in other states welcome concealed carry? Is his department going to show up when and if you need help? People are under the assumption that law enforcement is obligated to help you when you call. The truth is they are not obligated whatsoever. They may or may not show up. That's something that they don't tell you.

[Tom98915]

Originally Posted by schwani

A good question. I figured I'd start in the town I live. Perhaps a waste of time. But also, as rickr96 said, the more people talk to their local police about this the better. More importantly, I was curious to see first hand what the attitude of the local Police managment was. I did accomplish that.

I've been hesitant to actually apply only because I do worry that a denial might be viewed negatively in the future, should there be reason to review this.

All said, I may contact the Alameda County Sheriff's Department next.

Either that or wait for national reciprocity.....

schwani

As long as Ahnold is president of Cahlifonia you will never see our state recognize any other state's licenses. He's doing a bang up job (pun intended) of screwing up the works all by himself as it is for law abiding citizens