Concealed Or Holstered Carry In National Forest w/o CCW?

[OCExec22]

The other day I was hiking in San Diego on Cleveland National Forest Land and spotted a full size mountain lion about 50 yards from me. I do not have a CCW license yet. Would I be allowed to carry a concealed handgun on National forest land? Could I carry a holstered handgun w/o a permit on national forest land? I routinely hunt in the area.. Carrying a shotgun.. So I am assuming it wouldn't be a big deal to have a holstered handgun it would just be a lot easier to pack in a backpack.

[OCRancher]

Originally Posted by OCExec22

The other day I was hiking in San Diego on Cleveland National Forest Land and spotted a full size mountain lion about 50 yards from me. I do not have a CCW license yet. Would I be allowed to carry a concealed handgun on National forest land? Could I carry a holstered handgun w/o a permit on national forest land? I routinely hunt in the area.. Carrying a shotgun.. So I am assuming it wouldn't be a big deal to have a holstered handgun it would just be a lot easier to pack in a backpack.

Per your hunting license class, they should have told you that open carry in hunting areas is permitted in National Forest areas, but not in National Parks. CCW carry is not permitted, IIRC, if you do not have a CCW that is valid in California. (For California NP lands) Of course, there maybe other restrictions such as the type of ammo you can have in certain areas, so check all local regs before departing.

You can also open carry if you are in YOUR campsite, but I don't recommend it if you are in an area where others are camping close by. Too much explaining to do.

[1buba]

Originally Posted by OCExec22

The other day I was hiking in San Diego on Cleveland National Forest Land and spotted a full size mountain lion about 50 yards from me. I do not have a CCW license yet. Would I be allowed to carry a concealed handgun on National forest land? Could I carry a holstered handgun w/o a permit on national forest land? I routinely hunt in the area.. Carrying a shotgun.. So I am assuming it wouldn't be a big deal to have a holstered handgun it would just be a lot easier to pack in a backpack.

A holstered open carry sidearm is fine in the national forest. I personally would stay away from CCW. First, if that cat came at me, I want the gun as close as possible. Second, a LOT of the rangers have ZERO knowledge about things like CCW. Some of them are actually only on duty for the hunting season around here. We asked one for help one year when a big fight broke out between 2 campsites. She wouldn't come out of her trailer saying "They haven't even issued me my flashlight yet." While you may be legal in carrying, i would rather spend my time hunting than talking...

[GlockDoc]

If you are hunting an area where Big Game (i.e. Deer, Pigs, Bear) Season is open, don't forget to make sure your sidearm is loaded with "soft nose or expanding bullets".

[OCExec22]

Ok. I appreciate the feedback. Guess I'll just have to grab a holster. I never thought I'd EVER see a cougar, that whole experience definitely taught mer a lesson in defense. They are definitely around even off national forest land.

Also can you open carry on BLM land? BLM and NF have a lot of the same rules when it comes to hunting etc. What about state parks? Like the Anzo Borrego State Park?

It's unusual you can't carry on state parks, many state parks allow hunting.

[akulahawk]

Anywhere you find Deer in the wild, you're going to find or have signs of, Mountain Lions. This includes residential areas.

BLM and NPS both are entities of the Department of the Interior, but they have different missions and different rules. The US Forest Service is an entity under the US Department of Agriculture... Of the three, only one is firearm unfriendly... the others are either neutral or ok with firearms on 'their' land.

[CCWInstructor]

Parks

The Department of the Interior has released its long awaited regulatory reform proposals for National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges. The proposed regulations will be open for public comment for the next 60 days. It is critical that gunowners let their voices be heard on this regulation change.

As I had expected, the proposed regulations are worded to be as restrictive as possible while still trying to answer the primary complaint. Specifically, the proposed change limits firearms that “may” be carried, to those lawfully carried concealed under state law. Lawful open carry is denied. The proposal also specifically exempts buildings and facilities from lawful carry and it predicates its rules upon those of similar state lands rather than general state law. So in states like Virginia, where gunowners are fighting to regain their rights in state parks, the fight would automatically extend into National Parks. If a state wants to prohibit guns in a National Park, they should have to pass a law to do it.

Here is the actual text of the proposal for National Parks:

§ 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.

* * * * * (Added to the end of a complex litany of restrictions and exceptions)

(h) A person may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area in the same manner, and to the same extent, that a person may lawfully possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded and operable firearms in any state park, or any similar unit of state land, in the state in which the federal park, or that portion thereof, is located, provided that such possession, carrying and transporting otherwise complies with applicable federal and state law.

The proposed reg change for National Wildlife Refuges is virtually identical except for the types of state lands that it cites as comparable.

It is obvious that the bureaucrats who wrote these proposed regulations simply don’t understand the fundamental principles involved. It is ridiculous that the Department of the Interior would promulgate these convoluted half-measures when a simple statement adopting the laws of the host state regarding the possession and carry of firearms would solve the problem. I think the DOI is concerned about not being able to prosecute someone they catch sneaking through the woods with a scoped 30-06 as a poacher. By limiting the exemption to “concealed” weapons, they think they are bypassing that problem and they are ignoring the other problems such a limitation creates.

We have not yet formulated our official response as there are many factors to be considered and we would like to coordinate our efforts with other rights organizations. We will post our response as soon as we can get it put together.

In the mean time, here is the official information about posting comments:

You may submit comments, identified by the number 1024-AD70 by any of the following methods:

Electronically via the Federal rulemaking portal: redirect.
Follow the instructions for submitting comments.

Mail:
Public Comments Processing, Attn: 1024-AD70; Division of Policy and Directives Management; U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service; 4401 N. Fairfax Drive, Suite 222, Arlington, VA 22203

Hand-deliver: 4401 North Fairfax Drive, Suite 222, Arlington, VA 22203

Public Availability of Comments

Before including your address, phone number, e-mail address, or other personal identifying information in your comment, you should be aware that your entire comment – including your personal identifying information – may be made publicly available at any time.

While you can ask us in your comment to withhold your personal identifying information from public review, we cannot guarantee that we will be able to do so.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Mark Lawyer, (202) 208-3181, Mark_Lawyer@ios.doi.gov.

I'll send out an Alert in a day or two with sample comment language.

[snovvman]

I have a related question to the original post.

Can I open carry, loaded, on Angeles National Forest land? In my research, the conclusion is uncertain. It seems that Los Angeles County has some additional restrictions.

All the rangers tell me know, but I have yet read a specific Penal Code that tells me I can't.

Please advise.

Thanks.

[Jarhead1978]

Originally Posted by snovvman

I have a related question to the original post.

Can I open carry, loaded, on Angeles National Forest land? In my research, the conclusion is uncertain. It seems that Los Angeles County has some additional restrictions.

All the rangers tell me know, but I have yet read a specific Penal Code that tells me I can't.

Please advise.

Thanks.

I have worked for Calif. Dept. of Fish and Game and both the Dept. of Interior/ USFWS and the US Forest Service. I did a search and found this for the Angeles National Forest.... But I would check with the chief law enforcement officer for the Angeles National Forest, for the final word on the subject of firearms carrying.

Southern California Camping - Recreational Target Shooting

Angeles National Forest - Hunting and Target Shooting

Luckily, there are not those restrictions on Six Rivers, Klamath, and Shasta-Trinity National Forests up here on the other end of the state.

[Skwerly]

I was searching around for open-carry laws as well, and thought I'd bump this thread to the top, just in case others were.

2009 is my year, I am going to get a pistol. While I am not necessarily worried about a CCW just yet, open-carry laws are of great interest to me. We do a lot of back-road explorations and hiking, and it would be nice to know that I could have a sidearm on me without a lot of hassle.

[Dan M.]

Originally Posted by Skwerly

I was searching around for open-carry laws as well, and thought I'd bump this thread to the top, just in case others were.

2009 is my year, I am going to get a pistol. While I am not necessarily worried about a CCW just yet, open-carry laws are of great interest to me. We do a lot of back-road explorations and hiking, and it would be nice to know that I could have a sidearm on me without a lot of hassle.

If you aren't legally (as in licensed to do so) hunting or fishing, you can't carry, open or concealed (you can carry concealed with a valid CCW). You can't open carry while simply hiking, and you can't carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle on back roads.

You're in a great county for CCW issuance. Apply now. It'll be months before your interview, so even if you aren't worried aboput it just yet, you'll be in the queue.

[swdr]

Originally Posted by Jarhead1978

I have worked for Calif. Dept. of Fish and Game and both the Dept. of Interior/ USFWS and the US Forest Service. I did a search and found this for the Angeles National Forest.... But I would check with the chief law enforcement officer for the Angeles National Forest, for the final word on the subject of firearms carrying.

Southern California Camping - Recreational Target Shooting

Angeles National Forest - Hunting and Target Shooting

Luckily, there are not those restrictions on Six Rivers, Klamath, and Shasta-Trinity National Forests up here on the other end of the state.

Thanks for the links. Very useful.