Gunsmithing - Now Illegal in California?

[Ciderbite]

I recently ahd some work done on a firearm to improve feeding of ammunition (new barrel and polished ramp). A LEO saw the work and commented that any work done on a firearm in california alters the gun and causes it to fall off the approved list of firearms. I really didn't know how to respond so I said nothing and left the establishment. Any thoughts on how to respond in the future of such a claim?

[WKC]

The "Safe gun" list only apples to purchase of a handgun from a dealer. It does not apply to PPT between residents of California. I am not aware of any provisions in the Penal code that would make alteration of an existing firearm illegal or affected by the Safe Gun Act.

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by WKC

The "Safe gun" list only apples to purchase of a handgun from a dealer. It does not apply to PPT between residents of California. I am not aware of any provisions in the Penal code that would make alteration of an existing firearm illegal or affected by the Safe Gun Act.

The first part is key.

However there are laws in place that have nothing to do with the approved list that address alterations of firearms.

IE making one full auto.

But the alterations you mention are 100% legal.

[WKC]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

The first part is key.

However there are laws in place that have nothing to do with the approved list that address alterations of firearms.

IE making one full auto.

But the alterations you mention are 100% legal.

Good point. Since we only deal with legal alterations, I didn't think about putting that disclaimer in my post. So long as the work done on a gun does not affect its intended function per the original design, it does not violate any provisions of the Safe Gun Act that I am aware of. The only way for a gun to "fall off" the list is for the manufacturer to not pay the required extortion fee to keep it on the list.

[BonoVox]

I do have a question for CCWI.

What if someone altered a gun to disable its magazine disconnect? A feature in all new models of semi auto guns that has to be present for it to be added to the California approved list in the first place. Among other things.

Something tells me that this is where an alteration could get you in trouble verse the law addressing the approved list.

Or maybe not?

[sealbeach]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

I do have a question for CCWI.

What if someone altered a gun to disable its magazine disconnect? A feature in all new models of semi auto guns that has to be present for it to be added to the California approved list in the first place. Among other things.

Something tells me that this is where an alteration could get you in trouble verse the law addressing the approved list.

Or maybe not?

After it is legally sold to you by a dealer, from the approved list, you can do what you want, short of making it into an illegal gun (full auto, for example). Seems like CCWInstructor just answered this question recently. http://www.calccw.com/Forums/gun-smi...html#post16372

Is it a GOOD idea to extensively modify a gun? This again came up recently, you are on thin ice to carry a heavily modified gun, should the issue ever come up in court. The modifications you mentioned are very slight, however, more fine tuning than modifications. I believe the LEO was in error, and you did right to just keep your mouth shut and walk out.

I am puzzled why a LEO was in a gunsmith shop, telling the customers they were doing something illegal? Sort of a strange situation really, bad for the gunsmith's business, not very friendly, and not very correct. What gunsmith shop did this exchange take place in?

[WKC]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

I do have a question for CCWI.

What if someone altered a gun to disable its magazine disconnect? A feature in all new models of semi auto guns that has to be present for it to be added to the California approved list in the first place. Among other things.

Something tells me that this is where an alteration could get you in trouble verse the law addressing the approved list.

Or maybe not?

I think you can get in trouble with a civil trial if you use it in a SD shooting but I don't think there are any laws that prevent it. There are many instances of competitive shooters who have their grip safety disabled. CCWI would have the definitive answer.

[Justaguy]

Originally Posted by WKC

I think you can get in trouble with a civil trial if you use it in a SD shooting

Not easy to explain why you disconnected a "safety feature".
Would the lawyer get anywhere with it?
Maybe, maybe not.
But I don't want to trust my future on "maybe"...

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by WKC

I think you can get in trouble with a civil trial if you use it in a SD shooting but I don't think there are any laws that prevent it. There are many instances of competitive shooters who have their grip safety disabled. CCWI would have the definitive answer.

Correct!

[WKC]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

Correct!

You sure don't use a lot of bandwidth.

[tango-52]

Originally Posted by WKC

You sure don't use a lot of bandwidth.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

[Mtn. Medic]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

I do have a question for CCWI.

What if someone altered a gun to disable its magazine disconnect? A feature in all new models of semi auto guns that has to be present for it to be added to the California approved list in the first place. Among other things.

Something tells me that this is where an alteration could get you in trouble verse the law addressing the approved list.

Or maybe not?

Magazine disconnect?? I bought a new Kimber Ultra CDP II from a CA. FFL last month and it does not have a magazine disconnect. It fires just fine without the magazine in place.

So ah, does that make my new pistol contraband here in California?

[WKC]

Originally Posted by Mtn. Medic

Magazine disconnect?? I bought a new Kimber Ultra CDP II from a CA. FFL last month and it does not have a magazine disconnect. It fires just fine without the magazine in place.

So ah, does that make my new pistol contraband here in California?

The requirement for magazine disconnect does not affect guns already on the "Safe Gun" list. The Kimber was on the list prior to the magazine disconnect requirement went in to effect. You have a "Safe Gun". However, the LAPD SIS model is not on the "Safe Gun" list so the LAPD is using an unsafe gun.

[1buba]

Originally Posted by Ciderbite

I recently ahd some work done on a firearm to improve feeding of ammunition (new barrel and polished ramp). A LEO saw the work and commented that any work done on a firearm in california alters the gun and causes it to fall off the approved list of firearms. I really didn't know how to respond so I said nothing and left the establishment. Any thoughts on how to respond in the future of such a claim?

There is nothing illegal about it, as the others have stated.

I will share an interesting story though. I bought a S&W 360PD with the intent of bobbing the hammer and having a trigger job done. I took it to a local smith and asked him about the job. He said he wouldn't do it because "changing it from the safe gun configuration could put him in jeopardy liability wise." I reminded him that he already had liability issues by working on a gun, but that didn't move him. I think the problem is, like usual, folks don't educate themselves to what the law actually is. I am glad after the fact that I didn't have him do the work. He's a LOUSY smith. I'm still looking for a good one around P'ville.

[AF_int1n0]

Originally Posted by WKC

The requirement for magazine disconnect does not affect guns already on the "Safe Gun" list. The Kimber was on the list prior to the magazine disconnect requirement went in to effect. You have a "Safe Gun". However, the LAPD SIS model is not on the "Safe Gun" list so the LAPD is using an unsafe gun.

So your saying that the SIS, as in the SIS advertised as "The gun of LAPD SIS"
isn't CAL legal??

That would be funny if it wasn't so stupid!!