Calguns says I'm not supposed to say 'CCW' anymore :(

[coq]

"Imagine that a man who has been convicted of a domestic violence crime against a woman he had been dating seeks — and obtains — a permit to carry a concealed firearm..." she wrote.

[Mulhern]

I remember getting a thorough berating for using CCW...but I can't remember exactly why that was. Something about limiting the fight to 'concealed', or something like that. Can someone tell me what the intellectual argument was for only using LTC?

[Arnold]

Originally Posted by Dresden

Arnold, the OC SHEriff is one of the 12 I was referring to. There are 46 counties where properly wording a Good Cause statement (the reason this site was formed, by the way) will be sufficient. The Sheriffs cannot go Shall Issue, it is against current law. You have to go through the process. After all, I doubt any of us want a child molester who got his felony pled down to a misdemeanor to be issued a CCW. If Calguns wanted to get Shall Issue, they should have worked on a legislative change, not attacking ProCCW Sheriffs. You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Dresden,
Well, my understanding of "Shall Issue" is that a reason has to be given for NOT issuing; this is NOT illegal in any County that has a pro CCW Sheriff, all they have to do is define "good cause" as concern for self defense. How can that be against the law? Each Sheriff decides that and some are "shall issue" mentality and some are not (they believe, as it appears the OC Sheriff does) that citizens should not be armed.

Of course, mentioning "child molesters" is a red herring. You dont have to have a felony to be disqualified in CA, e.g., an order of protection and some misdemeanors. If you are concerned about child molesters, them make that one of the reasons. In my case, i am a qualified shooter, have NO criminal record, not even a misdemeanor, never arrested, never even investigated for a crime (to my knowledge) and am over 70 yrs old. So what is your reason that i should be denied a CCW (if i applied)? Perhaps that i had bad thoughts when i was a child? Gee, maybe i will commit a crime in the future (after avoiding criminal activity for 70 yrs). Perhaps LEO should not be armed and we should be like the UK? And, after all, some LEO have gone crazy or shot innocent people. That is probably a greater statistical probability that of our disarmed seniors.

To think someone (a Sheriff?) changes their stance on gun control because some ignorant boob attacks them as you seem to believe (honey v vinegar) seems to me to show a lack of integrity. Please think that logic through. If you are denied a CCW because the Sheriff doesnt like you, or your political beliefs, what does that say about their integrity?

You do not have to work on legislative change, which seems unlikely in CA with all the ridiculous gun control laws such as 10 round mags (I cant even buy a CZ-82 as an FFL-03 because it only has 12 round mags), you just have to have a Sheriff who believes law-abiding citizens, especially us older citizens, should be permitted to carry. All they have to do is properly (?) define good (reasonable) cause; some CA Sheriffs already do that. That would be very much like Shall Issue States-- you still have a background check and could make it as strict as you want (and i would certainly qualify).

No one has threatened my life -- i am not an aggressive person -- and i do not carry large sums of money, and i am not a judge, so i guess i dont have a right to protect myself against a mugger.

Oh well, there are always going to be those who want everyone unarmed, except, of course, criminals who ignore the law. At least OC County will be safe from law-abiding citizens who might go on a rampage if they were given CCWs. OC could become as safe as LA where our Sheriff is from. At least this Sheriff appears to be honest even though her anti-gun stance is seriously misguided (IMHO). I dont know her exact CCW requirements except from rumor and the newspaper reports. She certainly appears anti-gun.

[Tom98915]

Originally Posted by Dresden

The actual wording in the regulations is : "license to carry a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person". That is a heck of a mouthful, even if you turn it into an acronym: LTCAPROOFCOBCUTP.

Hey Dresden, how do you pronounce LTCAPROOFCOBCUTP??

[DVSmith]

Originally Posted by Tom98915

Hey Dresden, how do you pronounce LTCAPROOFCOBCUTP??

It is very close to "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious", but roll the 'r's.

[Tom98915]

Originally Posted by DVSmith

It is very close to "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious", but roll the 'r's.

[libertarian]

Originally Posted by Tom98915

Hey Dresden, how do you pronounce LTCAPROOFCOBCUTP??

"LEET-ka-proof-cob-CUT-p" would be my suggestion

[NoJoke]

Originally Posted by Mulhern

I'm a member over at Calguns, where I get a lot of valuable information. But when I discuss carrying, I get totally berated when I use the phrase 'CCW'. Apparently if I'm not using 'LTC', it's tantamount to calling a black person the 'N' word.

So what are the thoughts here? Am I hurting the cause as much as some would have me believe by continuing to say 'CCW'. I have to admit, it's so ingrained in my lexicon that it's gonna be pretty hard to stop.

I believe it is a preemptive move to strengthen CA gun owners position to obtain "shall issue" status for CA.

Not sure on the specific details - but I'm all for supporting "shall issue" - so changing use from one sequence of letters to another is not big deal at all.

Seems like an extremely insignificant inconvenience.

[Mulhern]

Originally Posted by DVSmith

It is very close to "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious", but roll the 'r's.

[wac220]

Originally Posted by Mulhern

I'm a member over at Calguns, where I get a lot of valuable information. But when I discuss carrying, I get totally berated when I use the phrase 'CCW'. Apparently if I'm not using 'LTC', it's tantamount to calling a black person the 'N' word.

So what are the thoughts here? Am I hurting the cause as much as some would have me believe by continuing to say 'CCW'. I have to admit, it's so ingrained in my lexicon that it's gonna be pretty hard to stop.

If we are talking about Politically correct speech, Everyone should quit calling them high capacity mags and call them standard. High caps are those aftermarket monstrosities.

I just didn't want to be left out of the conversation hehe

[Quiet]

CCW permit is generally the universal way of stating Carry Concealed Weapon permit.

However, the term CCW permit may not be legally correct due to how different states' laws are written.

For example, these terms are what's actually printed on the carry permit...
AZ uses the term Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP).
CA uses the term License To Carry (LTC).
NV uses the term Concealed Firearms Permit (CFP).
OR uses the term Concealed Handgun License (CHL).
UT uses the term Concealed Firearm Permit (CFP).
WA uses the term License To Carry (LTC).


So, it's not being politcal correct, but using the correct legal terminology.



CA Penal Code 26150
(a) When a person applies for a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, the sheriff of a county may issue a license to that person upon proof of all of the following:
(1) The applicant is of good moral character.
(2) Good cause exists for issuance of the license.
(3) The applicant is a resident of the county or a city within the county, or the applicant's principal place of employment or business is in the county or a city within the county and the applicant spends a substantial period of time in that place of employment or business.
(4) The applicant has completed a course of training as described in Section 26165.
(b) The sheriff may issue a license under subdivision (a) in either of the following formats:
(1) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Where the population of the county is less than 200,000 persons according to the most recent federal decennial census, a license to carry loaded and exposed in only that county a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

[mark]

why not revert back to the term

hideaway gun

[G36 Steve]

[/b]

Originally Posted by Quiet

CCW permit is generally the universal way of stating Carry Concealed Weapon permit.

However, the term CCW permit may not be legally correct due to how different states' laws are written.

For example, these terms are what's actually printed on the carry permit...
AZ uses the term Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP).
CA uses the term License To Carry (LTC).
NV uses the term Concealed Firearms Permit (CFP).
OR uses the term Concealed Handgun License (CHL).
UT uses the term Concealed Firearm Permit (CFP).
WA uses the term License To Carry (LTC).




So, it's not being politcal correct, but using the correct legal terminology.



CA Penal Code 26150
(a) When a person applies for a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, the sheriff of a county may issue a license to that person upon proof of all of the following:
(1) The applicant is of good moral character.
(2) Good cause exists for issuance of the license.
(3) The applicant is a resident of the county or a city within the county, or the applicant's principal place of employment or business is in the county or a city within the county and the applicant spends a substantial period of time in that place of employment or business.
(4) The applicant has completed a course of training as described in Section 26165.
(b) The sheriff may issue a license under subdivision (a) in either of the following formats:
(1) A license to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Where the population of the county is less than 200,000 persons according to the most recent federal decennial census, a license to carry loaded and exposed in only that county a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

While the acronyms for the various authorizing documents are different, the term CCW relates to the act of Carry(ing) a Concealed Weapon. CCW is a universal term recognized by Law Enforcement.
I don't care what state I'm in or what forum I'm on, I CCW!

[ZoaFan08]

I love Calguns, been a member there for a long time and know many people on that site but there are way too many people with a firm stick up their butt. Not as bad as arfcom but it's getting there.

I always find it funny how they jump on people who say clip instead of magazine. While I know they are different I think if we all wanted to be corrected all the time we would just stay at home and talk to our wives.

[CCWInstructor]

A Sheriff was reading somebodies sample CCW policy mailed out to all Counties. As soon as he read "LTC" he stop reading and trash it. The LT. standing there ask why? "If they can't even quote proper terms from the title page of the CCW application, why bother with the rest" was the reply.

I heard it from the LT. and called the Sheriff on it. The story is correct.