Constant carry or part time?

[rycerz]

Originally Posted by Mad Geek

I appreciate your response and don't disagree with the concepts as stated. I understand your concern about opening a "can of worms". If by posting what I did I've "crossed the line" of forum policy, please accept my apology and know I will refrain further.

No worries. Such questions are natural so they do come up on occasion, but they're well, complicated to say the least.

My purpose of thinking through scenarios and "what ifs" is so that I already know what I'm willing to do in a given situation based on my personal feelings and what I observe. But I can certainly keep those thoughts to myself. It IS, after all, personal choices we all have to make for ourselves.

You've pretty much summarized what it comes down to: it is all a personal choice and yes, law is one thing and the choice is another. The choice is something you have to live with. Only suggestion/thought I have on this topic is that not always things are what they seem to be and not knowing everything that relates to the issue might be dangerous but on the flip side one will never know if they know everything (damn, I'm starting to confuse myself with the philosophical approach).

Getting back to the original comment that took us down the path. CCW in CA I believe is issues for personal protection. The community aspect is the instructors spin on things unless he refers to one being responsible for their own self thus reducing the burden of community have to be resposible for that person's well being. Hope this makes sense.

Any action outside of self protection is I believe (again I'm not a legal mind so I might be a bit off here) is outside of what CCW is issued for. I'm not saying that should make someone not do something or do something, but just that it does not relate to CCW

[hbliam]

Even hypothetically this is just a sad commentary on society these days.

Not my problem...I don't want to get sued....might lose my condo....I'll be a good witness.....I don't have enough information....it's not my job........that's not why I have a CCW......

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by rycerz

Legally (and I'm not a lawyer) the answer is call 911.

With all due respect...I'm not sure about that.

There's no law against coming to the aide of an officer.

In my opinion a form of Posse Comitatus comes into play...if you want to talk about the "legal" aspects of it.

Nothing stops you from opening your mouth and yelling..."Are you OK officer???!!...Can I help you!!!??" If the officer is unable to speak and the BG is beating him/her senseless...you have a moral and maybe even a legal obligation to do something about it...if the officer asks for help.

[rycerz]

Originally Posted by SierraNevadaCCW

With all due respect...I'm not sure about that.

There's no law against coming to the aide of an officer.

That is true. I'm saying though that there is no law saying that you HAVE to (I'm not advocating one action or the other though).

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Except of the officer asks you for help....then you HAVE to.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by SierraNevadaCCW

With all due respect...I'm not sure about that.

There's no law against coming to the aide of an officer.

In my opinion a form of Posse Comitatus comes into play...if you want to talk about the "legal" aspects of it.

Nothing stops you from opening your mouth and yelling..."Are you OK officer???!!...Can I help you!!!??" If the officer is unable to speak and the BG is beating him/her senseless...you have a moral and maybe even a legal obligation to do something about it...if the officer asks for help.

Once a cop, always a cop. I was waiting for you to weigh in. You are way to predictable. Not that it's a bad thing.

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

Once a cop, always a cop. I was waiting for you to weigh in. You are way to predictable. Not that it's a bad thing.

Oh yeah! I have learned not to try to over"weigh" him too! LOL

Yes I have learned a lot from SN up North. In that scenario how can you not act?

I have a thing about children being targeted and add LEO's to that list. That is as close to black and white as I get.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by Mad Geek

Let me pose a situation: I'm driving through the mountain community where I live and LEO resources are sparse. A Sheriff or CHP has a car pulled to the side of the road. The driver of the car, for whatever his reason, has gotten the drop on the officer, has taken his duty weapon from him and starts beating on him and it's obvious to that the officer is unable to defend himself. Based on the actions of the BG, he is likely going to kill this person. I'm armed and have the ability to stop the threat, but there is no immediate threat to me or my family.

To many of you are bugging me about what would I do. I'll take it one step further. If you do not help the LEO, you permit may get pulled. It will not be renewed.

This is assuming you actions or lack their of come to light.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

Oh yeah! I have learned not to try to over"weigh" him too! LOL

Yes I have learned a lot from SN up North. In that scenario how can you not act?

I have a thing about children being targeted and add LEO's to that list. That is as close to black and white as I get.

Oh yea...bring my fat into it. LOL

[Mad Geek]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

To many of you are bugging me about what would I do. I'll take it one step further. If you do not help the LEO, you permit may get pulled. It will not be renewed.

This is assuming you actions or lack their of come to light.

This is an aspect that never occurred to me, but I guess it makes some sense. As for "..actions or lack their of come to light.", they would always be there for me to judge, and I have a tendency to be a little harder on myself than others might be.

Like rycerz stated early on, there is nothing in the law (written or implied) to compel me to come to the aide of a LEO or any other regular citizen who's life is in danger. While I am not "..everyone elses protector.." I would have to choose at a personal level to offer assistance or not based on what I'm observing, and live with that decision.

I think everyone needs to ask themselves the question, "What are you prepared to do?", but think it all the way through to what the consequences might be.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by Mad Geek

Like rycerz stated early on, there is nothing in the law (written or implied) to compel me to come to the aide of a LEO

Nothing in the law written or implied....? How many hours did you spend the law library?

Maybe this question should be answered with some research on case law, posse comitatus and penal code....rather than by some other sort of presumptive manner.

[G30 Steve]

CPC 150. Every able-bodied person above 18 years of age who neglects or
refuses to join the posse comitatus or power of the county, by
neglecting or refusing to aid and assist in taking or arresting any
person against whom there may be issued any process, or by neglecting
to aid and assist in retaking any person who, after being arrested
or confined, may have escaped from arrest or imprisonment, or by
neglecting or refusing to aid and assist in preventing any breach of
the peace, or the commission of any criminal offense, being thereto
lawfully required by any uniformed peace officer, or by any peace
officer described in Section 830.1, subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d),
(e), or (f) of Section 830.2, or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33,
who identifies himself or herself with a badge or identification card
issued by the officer's employing agency, or by any judge, is
punishable by a fine of not less than fifty dollars ($50) nor more
than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

[G30 Steve]

When you leave your house without a weapon say, "baaaaa". You are no longer a sheepdog.

[rycerz]

Originally Posted by G30 Steve

CPC 150. Every able-bodied person above 18 years of age who neglects or
refuses to join the posse comitatus or power of the county, by
neglecting or refusing to aid and assist in taking or arresting any
person against whom there may be issued any process, or by neglecting
to aid and assist in retaking any person who, after being arrested
or confined, may have escaped from arrest or imprisonment, or by
neglecting or refusing to aid and assist in preventing any breach of
the peace, or the commission of any criminal offense, being thereto
lawfully required by any uniformed peace officer, or by any peace
officer described in Section 830.1, subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d),
(e), or (f) of Section 830.2, or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33,
who identifies himself or herself with a badge or identification card
issued by the officer's employing agency, or by any judge, is
punishable by a fine of not less than fifty dollars ($50) nor more
than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

Yes, but my point is that this has nothing to do with CCW! The aiding and helping and so on makes no difference if you have a CCW or not from the way I read it.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by G30 Steve

CPC 150. Every able-bodied person above 18 years of age who neglects or
refuses to join the posse comitatus or power of the county, by
neglecting or refusing to aid and assist in taking or arresting any
person against whom there may be issued any process, or by neglecting
to aid and assist in retaking any person who, after being arrested
or confined, may have escaped from arrest or imprisonment, or by
neglecting or refusing to aid and assist in preventing any breach of
the peace, or the commission of any criminal offense, being thereto
lawfully required by any uniformed peace officer, or by any peace
officer described in Section 830.1, subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d),
(e), or (f) of Section 830.2, or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33,
who identifies himself or herself with a badge or identification card
issued by the officer's employing agency, or by any judge, is
punishable by a fine of not less than fifty dollars ($50) nor more
than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

Ok, well there you go. Posse Comitatus...like I said in an earlier post.

So as it relates to law...YES you are legally REQUIRED to assist.

As it pertains to CCW...you are able to use deadly force if necessary and you have the training, qualifications and means to do what another who doesn't cannot...