Attack at Convenience Store

[YankeeDog]

Having read this thread end-to-end and pondered all the measured responses I would not stand by and allow another person to be pummeled to death. Measured responses such as a yell to stop, calling 911, (at least to get on the tape) and, if necessary, using whatever was handy to stop the beating might stop or give pause to the attacker. If the perp changed his course and attacked me with a weapon that could be deadly, I would defend myself. Certainly, if these events turned out poorly for the attacker, I am sure his/her family would sue me for whatever they thought appropriate. Hopefully the stores security tapes are working.

I am reminded of a young lady named Kitty Genovese in NYC during the "70s who was beatened to death while her neighbors closed their windows, avoiding involvement. The stain of that crime still lingers.

[NSP]

Ok, so simply put every action has an equal yet opposite reaction. The more severe action you take causes a more severe reaction afterwards.

It's the anticipated reaction you have to be leery of.

Makes sense to me

[ironpete]

I've thought about this question before, not just because of this thread.

There was a similar YouTube thing being passed around (the Akron pizza parlor beating). Woman gets thrown out of a pizza parlor, she spits in the manager's face and has words with another patron. Woman's boyfriend (who is 6'4" 300lbs) starts beating on the patron while 7 other people watch. The guy suffers a broken nose, chipped tooth, concussion AND gets robbed.

I would have to try and stop the attack even if that meant hitting the guy with something and running like the blazes. I don't have to stand my ground and engage the guy, I just have to try to stop it, buy time or distract him. I've suffered a few beatings in my life so I'm not afraid of that. I can't imagine the outrage I would feel if my wife or daughter was being attacked and nobody even tried to scare off the guy.

I'm no hero, but I'm damn sure I'm human. What kind of world do I want to live in? That said, maybe I'll get a grade school named after me...posthumously.

The woman got 6 months for various misdemeanors and the assailant got 4 years.

-Peter

[Dan M.]

Originally Posted by ironpete

I've thought about this question before, not just because of this thread.

There was a similar YouTube thing being passed around (the Akron pizza parlor beating).

I've seen that one. Dude was HUGE! And his gf/wife sure didn't help anything by egging the beatee on until he was mad enough to try to stare down Monstro. He kinda looked like he was maybe edging around toward the door to leave until the guy hit him. In that little waiting area there was nowhere for the beatee to go even if he could've tried to get away after the first blow. If all those guys standing around would've ganged up on him they could've at least walled him off from the other guy or something. I wonder if any one of them even tried to talk the rest into it. They were quick to help the guy onto a stool (too little, too late) after the cops showed up. That was a brutal beating.

[YankeeDog]

My thoughts on measured responses are not simply put. The purpose on any response is to stop the attack. Watching a person be severly pummeled in a criminal attack and doing nothing to stop or even try to stop it, is, to me, unacceptable. Life is full of choices, and sometimes the ones you have a bad and worse. One of the things I learned in the CCW classes is that you are under no obligation of back up, or in my view, accept a beating. You may choose to, but fighting back is a choice, as is trying to stop someone from being beaten to a pulp or worse. Attempting to stop such an event by yelling at the attacker or otherwise distract him may stop it. It doesn't mean an escalation.

[YankeeDog]

I should have added to my previous post the translation of the Latin signiture on my posts. It means: "When you try to do good, sometimes it does no good"

YD in SC

[EM2]

The pizza parlor attack was the one I was refering to in my earlier post.
There are many things to consider before using deadly force, of course.
In that particular incident there was a considerable 'disparity of force', which may in and of it'self gave cause to use deadly force. The BG was considerably larger than anyone else in the place. All the other patrons did was watch. The guy getting the beating was very lucky he was not killed. There have been deaths due to beatings at child sports events where to parents go at it with less brutallity than in the pizza parlor incident.

[NSP]

In an attempt to not derail this thread I have a big question to ask.

In New York they have some sort of obligated assist law right? Yet they are one of the fore runners for banning handguns. How exactly does that work? Are all peacefully legal citizens given some sort of crime fighting ninjitsu lessons early on in life?

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by YankeeDog

I am reminded of a young lady named Kitty Genovese in NYC during the "70s who was beatened to death while her neighbors closed their windows, avoiding involvement. The stain of that crime still lingers.

+1
Kitty Genovese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[JALLEN]

The essential ingredient in all these theoretical discussions is how certain you are that you know what is occurring. You walk into the convenience store to find one man beating on another. You think, or assume, it is a robber beating the clerk, and that is probably the most common scenario. But what if it is something entirely different? What if it is a criminal resisting arrest by an off-duty or undercover cop who happened into the store a few minutes earlier? What if the cop is beating on a criminal he tried to apprehend, and you shoot the cop thinking he is the aggressor? There are all kinds of variations but all of them resolve themselves into being certain that what you think the situation is is in fact accurate. If you know one of the parties, that simplifies things. If you know all parties, that makes certainty much more likely.

How do you know that just after you shoot the presumed BG the cops, or some other well intentioned citizen, won't show up and shoot you by mistake?

All these things need to be carefully thought out, as there are very few "Mulligans" in real life, a chance to do it over.

[NSP]

How often is an undercover police officer going to be beating down some guy with a brick? Actually is there any time that an officer should just be beating someone down?

At any rate that is why I give a verbal command. Any trained LEO will identify himself and at that point tell me to stay back or ask for assistance.

Also I don't think any single person in this thread said "see guy doing beating and shoot him". Most of the answers were "yes I would get involved" or "I would get involved by being a witness"

[Quietpi]

The issue of knowing/not knowing all the facts is indeed a critical one, and must not be overlooked. However, the probability of a peace officer of any stripe, on or off duty, undercover, or anything else, beating somebody into submission with a brick is, like, zero.