Retired LASO Deputy carrying concealed shoots and kills purse snatcher in La Habra...

[45 ACP]

Originally Posted by Jonnyboy182x2

Let me rephrase, I don't think the deputy went in to hurt anyone, my point was people thinking of it as murder can think that way because of the way the situation went down.

And they would be wrong from a legal standpoint. What is your point again?

Originally Posted by Jonnyboy182x2

The deputy put himself into a situation where he was trying to do the right thing. Unfortunately someone died. Fortunately it was not someone who was doing the right thing. The issue is, he put himself there-and if that escalated the situation to a point where someone not dying was not an option-then there are questions.

No, the BAD GUY made the choice. He chose to commit the crime, he chose to flee, and he chose to bring a replica firearm to a gunfight.

He chose poorly.

Originally Posted by Jonnyboy182x2

I find it very funny how upset people get-I never said the retired deputy did anything wrong, I was wondering out loud about how the situation went down. You think because I don't automatically say "this guy was a deputy so he must be right" that I'm an enemy. Far from it, most of my family are LEOS in NYC. They've had to deal with people questioning everything they've done and every time they've come out on top. I stand behind law enforcement.

Ah yes, the 'ol "Well I have family in law enforcement" line. I can see where this is going. [/sarcasm]

Originally Posted by Jonnyboy182x2

At the same time my cousin was beaten by cops because he said the wrong thing-and they didn't know his cousin was their captain-there are bad apples everywhere.

Bad apples? I presume you have more information as to how this situation went down beyond the small blurb you posted. I would pass no more judgement based on your one sentence anymore than anyone (including myself) should pass judgement on the original topic here based on a "news" report.

I've arrested the mayor's son in the city where I work, but I had no idea it was his son. So does that make me a bad apple?

See how this works?

Originally Posted by Jonnyboy182x2

Do not insult me because I would not put my family in a situation where they can get hurt-please.

Nobody insulted you. That is a choice that you have to make and NO ONE anywhere can fault you for it........nor has anyone done so.

Originally Posted by Jonnyboy182x2

if you read what I said right after that was just as telling-I said if he was just being a good witness then he deserves my thanks.

I also find it funny that my point was ignored-if he was following and getting information for LE to arrest the guy-I may have done that. If he got out of his car and attempted to arrest the guy himself-that is the situation I would not put my family into. God forbid he had a real gun-or that his GF had one and used it on the Retired LEO and his family.

Your point here wasn't ignored, you just didn't state it clearly the first time.

Then again, you did state, "Personally I would attempt to do everything I could to avoid putting myself or my family in that kind of situation." But you would follow the bad guy.

***

For clarity's sake and to avoid thread drift, I will re-state what I have stated on this board in the past:

It's OK to discuss an officer-involved shooting and critique the tactics (by either party involved), the weapon choices, or whatever.

It's certainly OK to disagree. No one here knows everything, we can all certainly learn something from each other.

It's NOT OK to render judgement as to justification based on the often prejudicial, incomplete, and inaccurate facts presented in the "news" media. Doing so serves no legitimate purpose and can only damage your own reputation as a poster and potentially smear the officers involved.

I've been there and I won't tolerate it, whether it's on the internet or in a public restaurant (those make for some interesting stories.........)

I always have and will continue to call out members who pass judgement.

I will continue to do so until I am banned here. Feel free to hit the "Report Post" icon on the upper right if you feel necessary.

[Jonnyboy182x2]

Ok let me explain again

1- I said he opened the door for questioning of both the legality and the morality of the situation. Regardless of intent-he shot a purse snatcher-questions are going to arise because of that.

2- The bad guy chose badly he paid for it with his life. The Retired Leo made choices to-did he approach the snatcher with his gun drawn? Did he identify himself? These are questions that need to be answered before I can draw any conclusions and all I've done is ask questions.

3- Yes I have family in law enforcement and I intend to join a POST Academy next year once they open it up. I do not have first hand exp in dealing with these situations-I have family exp. It does not make me an expert but I stated my family connection with LE to help explain how much I love the profession and most of the people who do it.

4- My point was only this-there are bad apples everywhere, in such, I choose not to jump blindly into an opinion based on someones profession. My former pastor chose to have an affair and lie about it, my cousin was assaulted by police for being a smart ass. I do not trust someone off the bat because of their profession.

5-Correction, I was insulted by being called a Sheep. For anyone who reads into CCW/Gun owner literature we understand Sheep as people who choose to ignore threats and just become victims, while sheep dogs are people who choose to not be a victim.

6- Finally lets get this clear, I have no issue with someone using a weapon for self defense. I have no opinion on if this guy was wrong or right in using his weapon in this case. I don't have enough facts to have an opinion. MY statements were referring to what others had said.

[45 ACP]

Originally Posted by Jonnyboy182x2

3- Yes I have family in law enforcement and I intend to join a POST Academy next year once they open it up. I do not have first hand exp in dealing with these situations-I have family exp. It does not make me an expert but I stated my family connection with LE to help explain how much I love the profession and most of the people who do it.

Nevermind, you will find out soon enough.

Best of luck and congratulations.

[Keith92555]

[G36 Steve]

Originally Posted by Jonnyboy182x2

Ok let me explain again

5-Correction, I was insulted by being called a Sheep. For anyone who reads into CCW/Gun owner literature we understand Sheep as people who choose to ignore threats and just become victims, while sheep dogs are people who choose to not be a victim.

Sorry I hurt your feelings.
Let's just say your understanding of sheep Vs sheepdogs is different than mine. Here's my definition:
A sheepdog aggressively and sometimes violently protects the sheep (or crime victims). While a sheep may or may not be inclined to defend himself or herself to avoid becoming a crime victim, they seldom if ever are inclined to defend other sheep.

Good luck with the Academy.

[Akzl]

+1. I feel for this guy. Taking another life for any reason comes at a high price. Stop at a Big 5 and look at the air soft "toy guns", what choice does one have, shoot for the knee cap? I think not.

Originally Posted by FireArms101

I think the retired Deputy did the right thing and commend him for his service and bravery even in retirement.

This is how I picture this whole incident going down. I think the officer was tailing the suspect from a safe distance in order to observe and report to dispatch. The suspect most likely noticed that he was being followed and turned the vehicle around in order to brandish a toy gun in the hopes of intimidating the deputy. But much to the dumb criminals surprise the last thing this scumbag saw was the real McCoy.

My prayers go out to the retired Deputy and his family, this must be a terribly hard ordeal to have to go through.

[CalCCW03]

I do not want to close this thread however, can we please get back on topic. If the discussions continue as they have, I will have no other choice but to lock it.

Thank you,

[Quietpi]

Thank you, '03.

The facts - actual facts - that we know are still very, very lacking in the elements absolutely necessary to form any opinion at all. We have no time frames, distances, lines of sight, etc. etc. etc. Virtually any of those factors could swing my opinion, at least, in any of several directions. The articles indicate that the deputy's wife witnessed the shooting, but that doesn't even mean, necessarily, that she was involved in her husband following the BG, or was even close, whatever that means, when the shooting occurred.

I have learned through long and sometimes bitter experience not to trust a news report as far as I could throw the Golden Gate Bridge. Or for you Socal types, the Queen Mary. They both go just about as far when I throw them.

[Keith92555]

Originally Posted by 45 ACP

I've been there and I won't tolerate it, whether it's on the internet or in a public restaurant (those make for some interesting stories.........)

Oh...do tell. I'm sure I am not the only one whose curiosity is piqued. I think this thread has been crapped on enough though. How about a new thread to hear some good LEO stories?

[spc]

Many moons ago we used to get many 45 ACP stories. It would be fun to see them come back.

spc

[OIS]

Golly,

There are so many missing parts, and perhaps wrong parts that the best we might be able to do is speculate.

Maybe a few calls to the OC Register will prompt a higher level of investigative reporting.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by OIS

Maybe a few calls to the OC Register will prompt a higher level of investigative reporting.

Unfortunately, the OC Register stopped doing "real" reporting a while ago.

[X-ffdo]

Somebody pulled a gun.....fake or not, how can you tell?......BOOM, BOOM!!!!
End of story!...

[12gaugelosangeles]

I agree with the moderator on one of the first comments, seems like abuse of a CCW. If you see a purse snatching, the most you should do is give cops descriptions and license plate numbers. This was a purse snatch, a plain clothes retired cops uses his gun? The most you lose is a few dollars, ID's cards you have to replace and cancel, ect. A kidnapping would of been a whole other story. I'm sorry if this upsets people, but this COULD be cold blooded murder, seems like his anger of witnessing such a petty crime got him mad and he just unloaded.

[Eirerogue]

WHAT? You have absolutely NO BASIS for saying anything about murder. You have no knowledge of the actual facts other than this forum and a news clip.

Mad? No. Just amazed at your leap of logic. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.