Tax on FFL fee for CCW handgun?

[jakemccoy]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

Yes, but to be a California Firearms Dealer (CFD), you must have a resale lisc.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/...2406539809d93c

Which make their two options moot. You only have one.

...and that option is what? I just want to be totally clear as to what you mean.

[X-ffdo]

The way I know it is: The FFL holder serves as a transferring agent only. He is not the selling agent. If the selling agent does not collect tax, then you pay the state of Calif. a "users fee", which you declare at the time that you make your annual income tax report, there is appropiate paperwork for that. The FFL holder is only doing a transfer. Period.
That would irk me too, along with the "punishment" fee that some of these FFL guys are charging now, "Ok...You did not buy from me....He, He....open wide for chunky". your gun will average another $100.00+ by the time its out the door. I will not patronize such people. If you want to state what your fee is up front, even if it is $200.00 and I agree, I will pay it, as my word is one. Don't hit me with additional BS fees that were never discussed prior to the transfer. If I agree on something that's it.
I got hit with that once, I know, I am worse than a Sicilian when it comes to that, I will not forget and will not do business with such. If everyone did that, they would get the message.
Deal the way you shoot, straight!

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by jakemccoy

...and that option is what? I just want to be totally clear as to what you mean.

This is not a option:

" If the gun sale and state taxation are handled by the retailer (not the FFL dealer)"

You MUST be a dealer to handle the sale.

[jakemccoy]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

This is not a option:

" If the gun sale and state taxation are handled by the retailer (not the FFL dealer)"

You MUST be a dealer to handle the sale.

Sorry, here's what a meant about the other option for the local FFL dealer:

I'm in Northern California. I buy a gun over the Internet from an FFL dealer/retailer who's in Southern California. That dealer charges a state tax during the Internet sale. That dealer ships the gun to my local FFL dealer in Northern California. My local FFL dealer in Northern California should NOT apply state tax to his FFL fee. The FFL dealer/retailer in Southern California is treated as the retailer in this transaction. Thus, the FFL fee from my local FFL dealer is not part of the gun sale.

Alternatively, had the retailer been an out-of-state retailer, my local FFL dealer should apply the state tax to his FFL fee. That's because California treats my local FFL dealer as the retailer in this situation.

These two scenarios were explained to me as the proper taxation by a tax specialist of the Board of Equalization.

[CCWInstructor]

December 1998 Tax information bulletion.

"sales of property delivered to customers in California are subject to tax, whether the sale is made through the internet, by mail, by telephone, or over-the-counter."

My Story. 1987 the BOE comes in for a audit. They first thing they ask for is my gun logs and then invoices showing sales tax collected. Some of my invoices did not have sales tax because friends had bought guns through shotgun news. I was told "You are a california business operating in california, you MUST charge sales tax on all items."

I was given the choice to pay then on the spot, or wait for the bill with penalties. I paid then. Every 3 or 4 years they come and do the samething. Last time was 11/2005.

San Gaberial Valley Gun Club got nailed last year. All their members use the clubs FFL to buy their own guns from out of State. Their bill was 32,000.00 is owed sales tax.

What you heard is great. Tell it to the field auditor though.

[jakemccoy]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

December 1998 Tax information bulletion.

"sales of property delivered to customers in California are subject to tax, whether the sale is made through the internet, by mail, by telephone, or over-the-counter."

My Story. 1987 the BOE comes in for a audit. They first thing they ask for is my gun logs and then invoices showing sales tax collected. Some of my invoices did not have sales tax because friends had bought guns through shotgun news. I was told "You are a california business operating in california, you MUST charge sales tax on all items."

I was given the choice to pay then on the spot, or wait for the bill with penalties. I paid then. Every 3 or 4 years they come and do the samething. Last time was 11/2005.

San Gaberial Valley Gun Club got nailed last year. All their members use the clubs FFL to buy their own guns from out of State. Their bill was 32,000.00 is owed sales tax.

What you heard is great. Tell it to the field auditor though.

Again, the issue is not over the sales tax on the gun price. I understand that part: there's always a tax on the gun price. The issue is over the state tax of the local FFL fee. Sometimes the local FFL fee is taxable. Sometimes the local FFL is not taxable. The local FFL fee is taxable when the other retailer did not handle the state tax. The local FFL fee is NOT taxable when the prior dealer has already handled the state tax. Your records should include that receipt showing the state tax paid.

I gather you're saying that you ALWAYS apply tax to your FFL fee.

[CCWInstructor]

Got it! The fee depends on how the store writes it up, and that determines if tax is charge.

I don't charge a fee, so it's easy for me.

[GunSlut]

We need a taxman for this thread! Where is taxman?

[TaxMan]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

Got it! The fee depends on how the store writes it up, and that determines if tax is charge.

I don't charge a fee, so it's easy for me.

This is THE best answer (see CCWI, you didn't need me). If you don't get charged a fee, no sales tax. If a store includes the fee as part of the "purchase", you pay sales tax. Clear enough??

[GunSlut]

Thank you! He didn't ask for one, I did.

[TaxMan]

Originally Posted by GunSlut

Thank you! He didn't ask for one, I did.

I know, but it was his post that covered it. I was just giving him his props.

[jakemccoy]

Originally Posted by TaxMan

This is THE best answer (see CCWI, you didn't need me). If you don't get charged a fee, no sales tax. If a store includes the fee as part of the "purchase", you pay sales tax. Clear enough??

I think we're not all talking about the same thing, but that sounds cool for what you're talking about.

[GunSlut]

Originally Posted by jakemccoy

I think we're not all talking about the same thing, but that sounds cool for what you're talking about.

So what you are saying is if they charge a fee, (tranfer, service or handling charge) that is not taxable. Right?

[jakemccoy]

Originally Posted by GunSlut

So what you are saying is if they charge a fee, (tranfer, service or handling charge) that is not taxable. Right?

The FFL dealer's FFL fee is taxable if California is treating that FFL dealer as the retailer.

The local FFL dealer is NOT always considered the retailer. Example, I (in northern California) call a gun retailer in southern California who sells me a gun I saw on the Internet. The southern California dealer does not charge an FFL fee but does charge sales tax on the gun price. That gun is then shipped to my local FFL dealer. My local FFL dealer is not treated as the retailer in this transaction. The southern California dealer handled the gun sale, including the state tax. My local FFL dealer charges an FFL fee but does not apply a tax to that FFL fee. At no point in these transactions is any FFL fee taxed, and correctly so.

[X-ffdo]

I HAVE A HEADACHE!!!!!! LUCYYYY!!!!!!!. Next time, I'll just pay and shut up!!!