Avid Shooter

[Bombard]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

What miffs me is "Avid Shooter" has NEVER been excepted as good cause in Orange County. So what am I missing? Why is this instructor sending people in for guaranteed failure?

I guess it does shed light on why he instructs students to ignore OCSD, CCW application procedures and has his students pay and take his class BEFORE their approval with OCSD.

When I called CCWInstructor for the very first time to sign up for his CCW class. The first thing out of his mouth was "have you received your OCSD letter stating you have been approved for further processing?" there was no doubt that was required before I could sign up for his CCW class.

+1

I took the CCW class from the instructor in question in 98. I wasn't a resident of OC, I hadn't applied for a permit. I was really there to help my elderly dad get through the course, HE'D been approved for further processing. But it was easier to get him to accept my help if I was there "taking" the class at the same time.

But no one ever asked about where I lived, or where I was in the application process.

It WAS a good class. I learned a lot in the classroom (not much on the range, but that's not surprising for a CCW qual class)

[huna koa]

'Originally Posted by Glock32
I am not talking about his students. I am talking OCSD. How would he know why his students got denied? OCSD will not tell them why they got denied in the first place.
I can guarantee you that he does not need to mislead people to get his classes filled. Many of you may not want to hear it, but the man has a first class operation going on.

If I will have to take the lead on this I will do it. There are several members here who know the man as well or better than I do. Let's keep it real guys.'


never met the man in my life; only when I took the class, he singled me out on Sunday when we started shooting and commented about my speed and accuracy. He never promised me my CCW permit; I did get it without anyone's help, avid shooter was never mentioned in my GC; nor were those words spoken at my interview. I was in the December 2006 class; and I'm sure out of the two dozen or more there, I was one of the few that got their permits.

[Glock32]

Originally Posted by Bombard

Ummmm.....

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but in OC, if you take the course before you're approved, and than you ARE approved, don't you have to take it again?

Not if you get approved withing 12 months of taking the class. That's how it was 2 years ago.

[Glock32]

Originally Posted by DVSmith

I guess it would have a lot to do with how in touch he is with his clients. If he had two or three come back and tell him they were denied and they had an avid shooter good cause, wouldn't that raise a red flag?

I agree if he was in touch it would.

I for one am tired of this AS thing. I know for a fact it was GC at one point. Maybe not as a stand alone, but for sure as a second leg. It was mentioned during my interview 2.5 years ago. I never used the phrase.
This whole AS thing could have been fixed long time ago with a single phone call. Instead of addressing the root cause a lot of people here get busy bashing and badmouthing a man they never even met. Come on guys, this is public. We are better than that. It is in all our interest to fix this, or am I missing something?

Alex,
If you know more than I do please share. Or just call me, I have a feeling you have my number.

Thanks.

[huna koa]

"Instead of addressing the root cause a lot of people here get busy bashing and badmouthing a man they never even met. Come on guys, this is public."

Many did not get their permit because of insufficient 'good cause'; and are reacting with emotion and pride. I remember as I was going thru the 8 hour CCW class I slowly began to realize not all was going to recieve their permits, and when it ended on Sunday after the firing range, and drove home I knew I would get mine, knowing my good cause was reason enough with no reference to .....

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by alexf9496

You know this as fact?

I do. I actually got a denial letter. There is no specific reason given in them. It just states that you failed to establish good cause.

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by Glock32

I agree if he was in touch it would.

I for one am tired of this AS thing. I know for a fact it was GC at one point. Maybe not as a stand alone, but for sure as a second leg. It was mentioned during my interview 2.5 years ago. I never used the phrase.
This whole AS thing could have been fixed long time ago with a single phone call. Instead of addressing the root cause a lot of people here get busy bashing and badmouthing a man they never even met. Come on guys, this is public. We are better than that. It is in all our interest to fix this, or am I missing something?

Alex,
If you know more than I do please share. Or just call me, I have a feeling you have my number.

Thanks.

Well said.

[GunSlut]

Originally Posted by Glock32

I agree if he was in touch it would.

I for one am tired of this AS thing. I know for a fact it was GC at one point. Maybe not as a stand alone, but for sure as a second leg. It was mentioned during my interview 2.5 years ago. I never used the phrase.
This whole AS thing could have been fixed long time ago with a single phone call.

He got all kinds of calls from his students. He knew it wasn't working. Yet he still kept telling people to put that down. For the record a phone was placed to him.

[GunSlut]

Originally Posted by Glock32

Not if you get approved withing 12 months of taking the class. That's how it was 2 years ago.

Have you ever read the paperwork OCSD sent you. You might find it interesting.

It states you take the training afterwards.

[GunSlut]

Originally Posted by huna koa

was NOT used at all for my written GC; not even mentioned in my face to face interview. I heard the phrase when I was in the class and I also heard that there was no guarantee of a CCW if the you were. I was told by both the SD AND the class instructor that I should not only practice once a week, but compete in IPSC/IDPA or similar more than once a month and also take more classes to increase my proficiency.

By your profile, your in San Bernadino, this is a ORANGE COUNTY issue.

[GunSlut]

Originally Posted by alexf9496

Interesting thread.

I'm curious how this run of "avid shooter" GC denials will impact the CCW program as a whole? Could it have any negative affect on new or renewal applicants or will each GC stand on it's own merit?

I found out this afternoon it's having a VERY NEGATIVE effect. New and renewals.

[CCWInstructor]

I'm a little late to the thread. A policy change will be in place shortly that will permanently fix the problem forever.

[huna koa]

Originally Posted by GunSlut

By your profile, your in San Bernadino, this is a ORANGE COUNTY issue.

...that took his class and heard him say those words regardless of which county, I'm an eyewitness, I was there...and thank you CCWI for taking care of this issue.

[Glock32]

Originally Posted by GunSlut

Have you ever read the paperwork OCSD sent you. You might find it interesting.

It states you take the training afterwards.

I read it and am aware of it. OC unlike some other counties will not use it against you if you take the training prior. They advise against it, for obvious reasons.
Please understand that there are people out there who take a ccw class to feel the pulse or just because they want to. I was one of them. Not evereybody taking the class will apply. I took my first Ca ccw class 2 years before applying. I had no help and lacked the balls to risk denial. I was later encouraged by one person who had tried and eventually got approved and took a chance. He is a memeber of this board and I doubt he even remembers. This was all prior to this wonderful site here and prior to TOS. It was the days of PDO in case some of you remember.

I trusted the information given by the instructor. I agree with everyone here that it should be accurate and not misleading. In my opinion this is the issue that needs to be fixed, not more and not less and I see form the latest post that it will. Thank you.

[alexf9496]

Originally Posted by THE Gimper

I do. I actually got a denial letter. There is no specific reason given in them. It just states that you failed to establish good cause.

I understand that. It's their SOP. However, you left out the part where I said that if PSD is slammed with avid shooter denials, keyword IF, Melissa just might tell them during the interview to save time.

Yours is a sample of one, and it's probably correct, at this time.

I'm throwing out a possibility.