At the range

Rob P. · #1 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 06:20 PM

Wasn't really "carrying" but I was at the range the other day checking in when this guy comes through the door from back in the firing area carrying his glock with the slide locked back. He (literally) drops it on the counter next to me with the muzzle pointing right at me and nods in my direction.

I sorta quickstepped backwards 2 steps and the counter guy sees me move and then spots the glock on the countertop.

"Who belongs to that?"
"It's mine." says the cool dude in the black skull tee shirt.
"Well, it's against the rules to have an unholstered weapon in the shop. I'm gonna have to fine you $40 bucks for that."
"WHAT????" screams the cool dude.
"Against the rules." the counter dude says again. "$40 bucks. Read the rules on the wall behind me."

Grumbling the cool dude decided to not get that extra box of ammo because the fine was going to take all the cash he had on him. He paid it, grabbed his gun and left.

Scarey part was when the muzzle was pointed in my direction from 3 feet away. Had the slide not been locked back I'da been making tracks.

Stupid mistake by someone who has had no training in safety or weapons handling. You do NOT just carry a handgun around in a gun store even if it is locked open and mag empty. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

My question is should I have done something more/different than just get out of the line of fire? I instantly saw that the slide was locked open and the mag not in the weapon. I knew it was just a deadly paperweight at the time before I moved as a safety precaution (Rule #1 & don't be the target for rule #2).

hbliam · #2 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 06:24 PM

$40? I'm surprised the guy paid it. I'm more surprised they didn't just kick the guy out.

Public ranges make me uncomfortable anyway. I try to go on off hours.

**WKC** · #3 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 06:41 PM

I think you did the right thing. Making the range personnel aware of the situation is the best way to handle this situation.

We all have run across new shooters. I was one of them and I know I appreciated the pointers given to me by more experience shooters when I was learning. As we gain experience, we have the responsibility to help other shooters become more aware of safe handling techniques. However, no amount of coaching on our part will overcome a poor attitude. In this case, the poor attitude was evident and having the range fine him hopefully will help him make an adjustment.

**sealbeach** · #4 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 08:34 PM

Many ranges rent guns, they hand the customer the gun and ammo at the counter, and expect to get the gun back at the counter, i am puzzled at why bringing an unloaded gun to the counter was such a big deal at that range?

Rob P. · #5 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbliam

$40? I'm surprised the guy paid it. I'm more surprised they didn't just kick the guy out.

Public ranges make me uncomfortable anyway. I try to go on off hours.

They had his D/L hanging on the wall clip for the range aisle he was using. Std requirement for day users at this range. He either had to pony up or surrender his D/L.

This WAS the off hour. Middle of the week, middle of the afternoon.

Sealbeach, the rules say that ALL weapons must be cased or holstered inside the store portion of the range. They also explicitly tell you at the time you sign in that if you have a problem you can't solve leave the weapon on the firing line and come into the store for assistance. Weapons must also be left w/ the slide locked open or cylinder swung out.

Rental guns are "dispensed" in a carry/tote and are returned in the tote. No uncased/unholstered weapons that way.

I have to admit the gun in question was safe but the rules are explicit and are there so that no one misses the safety thing. He weren't happy with the whole deal I can say that.

**X-ffdo** · #6 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sealbeach

Many ranges rent guns, they hand the customer the gun and ammo at the counter, and expect to get the gun back at the counter, i am puzzled at why bringing an unloaded gun to the counter was such a big deal at that range?

+1.
If he brought the gun back, with the slide open and locked, no magazine in the magazine well. Unless there was another issue, it would be safe to assume, (Never assume anything, so I am on thin ice here) That it was a rented gun, and he was returning the rented gun. If this is the case, I do not see an infraction of most range rules. As the weapon was cleared, action locked open, and no source of ammo in the magazine well. To be sure, the weapon was allowed to point in the wrong direction, at you. An oversight!.
If it was his own weapon, he should have had it unloaded and locked closed in the weapon's case.
If someone can add anything constructive to clarify my reasoning, please do so.

hbliam · #7 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob P.

They had his D/L hanging on the wall clip for the range aisle he was using. Std requirement for day users at this range. He either had to pony up or surrender his D/L.

I understand it's "the rules" but unless they are the DMV or a LEO they have no authority to confiscate a DL. They can kick him out and take him to court for the $40 (yeah right) but that's about it. I guess the fines hinge on people's desire to return...

**IAmASensFan** · #8 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-ffdo

+1.
If he brought the gun back, with the slide open and locked, no magazine in the magazine well. Unless there was another issue, it would be safe to assume, (Never assume anything, so I am on thin ice here) That it was a rented gun, and he was returning the rented gun. If this is the case, I do not see an infraction of most range rules. As the weapon was cleared, action locked open, and no source of ammo in the magazine well. To be sure, the weapon was allowed to point in the wrong direction, at you. An oversight!.
If it was his own weapon, he should have had it unloaded and locked closed in the weapon's case.
If someone can add anything constructive to clarify my reasoning, please do so.

I have to go with Rob on this...if the store has a rule, then buddy should be following it. I always case and uncase my weapon on the firing line...no worries that way.

**IAmASensFan** · #9 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbliam

I understand it's "the rules" but unless they are the DMV or a LEO they have no authority to confiscate a DL. They can kick him out and take him to court for the $40 (yeah right) but that's about it. I guess the fines hinge on people's desire to return...

I don't know if thats true or not...if you sign a waiver, then you could be agreeing to surrendering or paying...It's amazing how binding a contract can be, even when it appears that the conditions are unreasonable...

On Target keeps your ID...I don't know what they do if you refuse to pay for a hanger you've ruined, but I would imagine that the ID is collateral for it...

hbliam · #10 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

I don't know if thats true or not...if you sign a waiver, then you could be agreeing to surrendering or paying...It's amazing how binding a contract can be, even when it appears that the conditions are unreasonable...

On Target keeps your ID...I don't know what they do if you refuse to pay for a hanger you've ruined, but I would imagine that the ID is collateral for it...

I bet if you called the local PD you would get your license back and the range would get to copy down all your info. They have no authority to confiscate anything but your money.

**IAmASensFan** · #11 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbliam

I bet if you called the local PD you would get your license back and the range would get to copy down all your info. They have no authority to confiscate anything but your money.

You are 100% correct...and I bet they would highly suggest the guy pay the fine too

Or maybe they won't, and the store does it for intimidation...but the reality is, I bet buddy would be more careful next time...****...they are doing YOU and ME a favor here!!!

Keep in mind...this guy WILLFULLY Surrendered his DL...he wasn't coerced into handing it over...and if he objects to the condition, he better find another range...The business has the right to refuse service

**akulahawk** · #12 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 10:31 PM

The guy should have followed the rules. You did what you needed to do to ensure you were not in any direct line of fire. I have been to ranges that aren't run very safely. I've been to ranges that are run very, very safely. I tend to prefer the safer ones. For some reason, the safer ranges I've been to also tend to attract nicer (no attitude) shooters and employees.

I'm not in your shoes, nor have I been to the same range you went to, so on that, I can not comment. Otherwise, it sounds like you did the right thing and the whole beef was with the employee and the other guy.

**X-ffdo** · #13 (**permalink**) 06-25-2007, 11:04 PM

Ok, now I get it....So the person in question was not renting the gun!.
It was his own weapon. Then that is why the attendant said "No unholstered weapons, yara yara yara" and got fined. So He should have had it in its case.
What I do not understand is why would anyone drop the weapon on the counter? That's totally illogical! Not enough megabites, I guess

!