At the range

[NSP]

Originally Posted by Panhead Bill

but when I'm not dressed for work I'm usually dressed in all black, I have full sleeve tattoos on my arms and earings. Granted, I follow safety rules to the point of being OCD but if appearances are what we rely on ... uh oh.

If you are a lawyer then I don't understand why I would need to point out to you how society views people with tattoos and piercings wearing skull t-shirts. I'm fine with anybody sporting ink around me but you should know that society still has not accepted people who choose to express themselves.

And yes, appearances are ALL we have to rely on untill we get to know a person.

[RomanDad]

Originally Posted by NSP

If you are a lawyer then I don't understand why I would need to point out to you how society views people with tattoos and piercings wearing skull t-shirts.

As TOTALLY COOL!?!?

[Panhead Bill]

Originally Posted by NSP

If you are a lawyer then I don't understand why I would need to point out to you how society views people with tattoos and piercings wearing skull t-shirts. I'm fine with anybody sporting ink around me but you should know that society still has not accepted people who choose to express themselves.

And yes, appearances are ALL we have to rely on untill we get to know a person.

Trust me, I understand that, that would be why I usually wear long sleeved shirts and remove earrings before going to court or other hearings. My point was that you don't know who this guy was, and new shooters need to be treated with respect instead of chasing them off with the impression that gun people are snobs and ***holes. We need, especially now, to take new shooters under our wings, teach them properly, and hopefully have one more person who will stand up and join us in defending our rights. However, as I stated earlier, if in fact the guy was warned previously and he sported an attitude along with his appearance, throw him out - good riddance, we don't need him representing us! I just didn't see those facts in the initial post.

As a side note, even when I am sporting my tats and riding my harley with huge apehangers spraying oil everywhere I go, I rarely get a sideways glance. Its probably the Marine in me, but I act respectfully and as a gentleman. People can see through the outward appearance when one acts respectfully.

Panhead Bill

[1buba]

Originally Posted by Panhead Bill

Trust me, I understand that, that would be why I usually wear long sleeved shirts and remove earrings before going to court or other hearings. My point was that you don't know who this guy was, and new shooters need to be treated with respect instead of chasing them off with the impression that gun people are snobs and ***holes. We need, especially now, to take new shooters under our wings, teach them properly, and hopefully have one more person who will stand up and join us in defending our rights. However, as I stated earlier, if in fact the guy was warned previously and he sported an attitude along with his appearance, throw him out - good riddance, we don't need him representing us! I just didn't see those facts in the initial post.

As a side note, even when I am sporting my tats and riding my harley with huge apehangers spraying oil everywhere I go, I rarely get a sideways glance. Its probably the Marine in me, but I act respectfully and as a gentleman. People can see through the outward appearance when one acts respectfully.

Panhead Bill

Bill,
I want you to know that this isn't meant as a personal attack. I don't have a problem with piercings and tats of folks that are respectful and otherwise fit well in society.

however, I don't believe that is the norm. (you would, therefore, be the exception). A couple of examples - the Marines will only allow so many tats. I have a friend that got all his tats while serving. He went to re-enlist (after about 6 months out) and couldn't get in - too many tats (again, weird, as he got them all while in service). So... the Marine's see it as a negative in some way.

The other example is a little more complicated. Business owners have found, for a large part, that these ordained folks are not good for business. It was a valid reason for not hiring until the socialist on the city council of Santa Cruz (or possibly Monterey?) decided that it was illegal for a business owner to use it as an denial for employment (don't get me started on the lack of rights for a business owner).

That said, tats and respect, will get you respect in return. However, we are forced to judge folks right away as to responsible/not in certain situations, particularly when they have a gun in their hand... Tats aren't what anyone wants to be judged by first when you are holding a gun.

[Panhead Bill]

1buba:

I did not take your message as anything personal, and I know exactly how society views such things, which is why in a professional environment you would never know about my sleeves. I don't know how we got off on this tangent, but my only point was that we, as firearms enthusiasts, need to be wary of how we treat others. We are being watched and the brady crowd is too quick to swoop down and attack us and so we must be banded together, and we must try and get as many good, new people in as we can if we are going to preserve our rights. I have personally seen far too many instances where staff at gun shops or ranges either stuck their noses up at "newbies" or completely ignored them. Those are potential brothers in arms that we likely lost.

Now, I don't know the complete situation of the original post and that guy may have deserved being given the boot, I just wanted to use that incident as an example to bring up the above point. Be careful how we represent gun owners/enthusiasts!

Panhead Bill

[1buba]

Originally Posted by Panhead Bill

Be careful how we represent gun owners/enthusiasts!

Panhead Bill

Very well said!

[NSP]

Originally Posted by Panhead Bill

I don't know how we got off on this tangent, but my only point was that we, as firearms enthusiasts, need to be wary of how we treat others.

I'm sorry if this was too much of a diversion of discussion, I felt it was an important part of this conversation though.

I do agree with you that we need to be wary about pushing out the newbies.