At the range

[WKC]

The M82! That's a big shirt!

[newshooterinca]

Originally Posted by THaves

Glad everything turned out OK, when I visit my local range I am always on edge as I see fools putting the lives of other shooters in danger all the time....And yes I tell them right there and then.

Agreed, the guys who never shot before and think it would be cool to try and the range hands them a rental gun with no safety orientation at all.

What i miss though is shooting at Scottsdale Gun Club back in AZ ... lots of sights to remember, like the day I walked out and saw two girls in high heels on their lunch break shooting full-auto weapons!!!!

(FYI - that particular range does a safety orientation before you can shoot, and if you rent a machine gun a range safety officer comes with it and is over your shoulder the whole time.)

[Sigman]

Originally Posted by newshooterinca

Agreed, the guys who never shot before and think it would be cool to try and the range hands them a rental gun with no safety orientation at all.

What i miss though is shooting at Scottsdale Gun Club back in AZ ... lots of sights to remember, like the day I walked out and saw two girls in high heels on their lunch break shooting full-auto weapons!!!!

(FYI - that particular range does a safety orientation before you can shoot, and if you rent a machine gun a range safety officer comes with it and is over your shoulder the whole time.)

Yeah right. He was only there helping out the ladies.

[Glock32]

Originally Posted by newshooterinca

(FYI - if you rent a machine gun a range safety officer comes with it and is over your shoulder the whole time.)

Not by choice as you very likely know. The way you describe it though he was in for a 'treat'.

[tango-52]

The range I frequent (and where one of my sons works) requires that you do an orientation and take a test. They then issue you a range safety card, which you are required to present every time you sign in to shoot. That is seperate from having a range membership. When you get a lane, they take your DL and clip it up on the numbered board showing which lane you were on and you get it back when you pay. They also charge $35 if you shoot the target hanger string.

[Norseman]

Hi! I'll just play devil's advocate on this one.

"I don't know if thats true or not...if you sign a waiver, then you could be agreeing to surrendering or paying...It's amazing how binding a contract can be, even when it appears that the conditions are unreasonable...

On Target keeps your ID...I don't know what they do if you refuse to pay for a hanger you've ruined, but I would imagine that the ID is collateral for it..."


I've never been to On Target, so I'll take your word for it.

(1.) Where in the law are you required to have a driver's license or official CA ID card to own, rent, or shoot a gun?

(2.) Question: It's amazing how binding a contract can be, even when it appears that the conditions are unreasonable...

I guess that agreeing in fine print to have "relations" with the owner of the gun store for an infraction would be mandatory if you signed a slip of paper agreeing to it in advance?


Of course I'm exagerating to make a point. They simply can not confiscate your driver's license, or ID card legally. It's actually not yours' anyway. It's actually the property of the DMV, on loan to you. If they attempt to, then they are opening themselves up to a major lawsuit, which they will loose.

I tried to clairify things here, but probably just muddied up the waters instead.

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by Norseman

Hi! I'll just play devil's advocate on this one.

"I don't know if thats true or not...if you sign a waiver, then you could be agreeing to surrendering or paying...It's amazing how binding a contract can be, even when it appears that the conditions are unreasonable...

On Target keeps your ID...I don't know what they do if you refuse to pay for a hanger you've ruined, but I would imagine that the ID is collateral for it..."


I've never been to On Target, so I'll take your word for it.

(1.) Where in the law are you required to have a driver's license or official CA ID card to own, rent, or shoot a gun?

(2.) Question: It's amazing how binding a contract can be, even when it appears that the conditions are unreasonable...

I guess that agreeing in fine print to have "relations" with the owner of the gun store for an infraction would be mandatory if you signed a slip of paper agreeing to it in advance?


Of course I'm exagerating to make a point. They simply can not confiscate your driver's license, or ID card legally. It's actually not yours' anyway. It's actually the property of the DMV, on loan to you. If they attempt to, then they are opening themselves up to a major lawsuit, which they will loose.

I tried to clairify things here, but probably just muddied up the waters instead.

Who would they be open to a lawsuit to?

Not you, since, as you said, it's not your license to begin with!

I have no answer for any legal standing on this. Frankly, I don't care to spend the time looking. I have no problem surrendering mine for them to keep track of my costs while I am out on the range.

I am, however, going to ask what they do if someone refuses to pay for damages...I imagine they photocopy the license, then put you on a wall of persona non grata.

[Norseman]

Hello IAmASensFan. Good to discourse with you once again! I've seen the "Wall of Shame" before at different business establishments. I've always wondered what their liability would be for identity theft for someone copying down you CDL# etc. and using it. You have sparked my curiosity on the matter of CDL confiscation, and what the legal ramifications of this would be. I'll do the leg work on it, and get back to you if you like. I too have surrendered my CDL as collateral at ranges in the past. Persona non grata? I love Latin potatos with cheese!

[hbliam]

I like that the firing line gives you a membership card when you join which is used in place of a DL. They certainly can confiscate that.

[Norseman]

This perhaps, should be the way to go for all ranges. What if you were a foreign national on vacation, and used a green card, Visa, or passport as your ID, and it was confiscated. I can see the State Dept. having some quality time with you. Just thinkin.

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by Norseman

Hello IAmASensFan. Good to discourse with you once again! I've seen the "Wall of Shame" before at different business establishments. I've always wondered what their liability would be for identity theft for someone copying down you CDL# etc. and using it. You have sparked my curiosity on the matter of CDL confiscation, and what the legal ramifications of this would be. I'll do the leg work on it, and get back to you if you like. I too have surrendered my CDL as collateral at ranges in the past. Persona non grata? I love Latin potatos with cheese!

LOL

You know, I have absolutely no idea what the issue is with the CDL. I'm definitely curious.

which range do you normally go to? I'll ask around this week while my wife's out ot town and get back to you as well!

[Norseman]

I always go to the Mother Lode Gun Club. Jamestown, CA (Tuolumne County). You police yourself on the honor system. A first class shooting range.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by Norseman

I've seen the "Wall of Shame" before at different business establishments.

If that "wall of shame" includes personal information, and you as a customer can see it. They are breaking California state law.

Most ranges I know have that information hidden behind the counter so only employee's can see it. That is legal.

[Norseman]

I know. But sometimes the minimum wage employess are not always up to speed on the legalities of the system.

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

If that "wall of shame" includes personal information, and you as a customer can see it. They are breaking California state law.

Most ranges I know have that information hidden behind the counter so only employee's can see it. That is legal.

yeah, thats where I was getting at...but for some reason I couldn't resist posting "Wall of Shame".