Fairly minor incident

[Alp]

Thought I'd pass this along....

Several weeks ago I stopped by a MacDonalds drive-through to grab breakfast out of convenience that one morning. There was only one vehicle ahead of me at the ordering mic, I was stopped at the menu sign. There was no one behind me and nobody else walking in the parking lot that I noticed. To my right about 30 feet away there was a homeless-looking driver in a beat-up 80's Olds backed-in to a parking spot against a cinderblock wall. Again, no other vehicles or pedestrians in the immediate vicinity.

I noticed that another homeless-looking individual about 100 ft to my left was walking in my direction from the neighboring gas station lot. As he entered the MacDonalds parking lot and got about 30 feet away he began staring at my car and me. The vehicle ahead of me moved all the way up to the drive-thru window. He then looked over his left shoulder, then his right sholder, then behind him, and put his right hand into his jacket pocket. Needless to say, that aroused just a tad bit of suspicion.

At that point I casually opened my center console, removed my Kahr P45 and placed it under my left thigh with my right-hand on the grip and fore-finger along the slide, ready to "move it back and up" along the inside door if necessary. My window had been down because I was preparing to order breakfast.

He got about 6 feet away and yelled out quite loudly "Hey white boy... are you afraid of me?" His demeanor was truly hostle. Mind you, I never had stared back at him nor did I initiate any conversation, I just "monitored" his moves out of the corner of my eye. I calmly and politely replied with "Why should I be afraid of you sir? I'm armed." Quite frankly I wasn't sure if he was going to jack the Mercedes, rob me, panhandle, was just being stupid, or had "issues".

He gave me a strange look then walked behind my car. I watched the rear-view and right side mirrors. He got into the car with the other individual. I ordered my meal, moved to the window and off I went. By that time a few other cars had pulled into the position I was in. I wanted to see what he was going to do before moving forward or just plain driving away from the incident and geting breakfast elsewhere.

I'm a civilian but I encounter on-duty and off-duty peace officers almost daily in my line of work. One of my on-duty CHP friends came in later that morning and I told him the story. Told it later to another local city officer and he said there was a methadone clinic about 2 blocks away and "you got to be on your toes in that lot". I just wanted a "de-briefing" to get feedback on how I handled it.

The race of the individual(s) is unimportant. Troublemakers come in all colors, including white. Point is, I was glad I was armed. Even more surprising, I felt calm and confident through the event. In retrospect I should have called the local PD to report the encounter and tell them that I verballized to him I was armed. Just a CYA in case he called in some false report.

[hbliam]

I think you did everything fine until you talked to him. I would have ignored him unless forced to talk to him. Then if forced I wouldn't give him anymore info then he needs. On the other hand maybe what you said is exactly what needed to be said. It's hard to monday morning QB stuff unless you were there. Glad you are OK.

[rycerz]

Here's my 2 cents: don't disclose that you have a firearm... cause he could have called the cops on you and then you'd have to explain yourself. Look at it from a different perspective: you've just forewarned him and he knew that you are armed and could have taken action in his mind appropriate to the situation.

[THaves]

Alp,

First of all I am wondering why you are eating a MacDonalds, I mean come on ! The food is far more dangerous than any homeless bum.

Pleased that everything turned out fine.

I really liked the way that your were situationally aware, you had spotted potential danger because you are smart. You made the right move by bringing your weapon to a readily accessable position, I would have been ok with it being on top of your leg ( as long as it was not in plane sight)

I liked that you stayed calm and remembering that you are vulnerable in your car in that position and at close range ( 6 feet is too close) I think your warming was right on.

You did not show him your weapon which is good, you did not threaten him and yet you firmly gave him the impression that you were not to be messed with.

Thank you for sharing

[CCWInstructor]

"Why should I be afraid of you sir? I'm armed."

That could lead to problems. Glad it turned out Okay.

[BexSoCal]

First and foremost. Glad you're ok Alp.

Secondly, speaking from my Lower East Side of NYC street-smarts, YOU CANNOT SHOW FEAR! They thrive on it and that's when you get attacked. Announcing you were armed could have led to trouble with authorities but it was what kept you from being a victim.

These (people) are naturally lazy P.O.S. They don't wanna work in general and they certainly don't wanna work a mark.

Plus, if he did call the police just to annoy you who do you think they'd believe. The legally licensed to carry a weapon professional in a Mercedes or the (people) that made the agressive physical and verbal threats?

Anyway, glad you're ok.

[G30 Steve]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

"Why should I be afraid of you sir? I'm armed."

That could lead to problems. Glad it turned out Okay.

Fist off, I'm glad things turned out OK. Situational awareness may have saved you from a bad situation.

I know what I'd be tempted to say but my religious convictions and forum rules prevent me from typing it. Time permitting, verbal de-escalation is always a good tactic to try but saying "I'm armed" could be taken as a threating phrase and lead to legal trouble. From a tactical point of view, you don't want to give up the element of surprise.

That said, Greg, do you have a suggested response we could try to employ in similar situations?

[BexSoCal]

Originally Posted by G30 Steve

That said, Greg, do you have a suggested response we could try to employ in similar situations?

i can think of many many colourful responses i've used over the years.

[Alp]

Thanks to all who responded. I posted this experience for a reason... I believe situations like this can potentially get CCW licensees in trouble through what we say and do. It's how I (we) handle potential threats like this. Handling the immediate threats of grave bodily harm to our persons or loved ones seem more clear-cut.

I agree that in retrospect, stating "Why should I be afraid of you sir, I'm armed" was not the best thing to say. However, if push came to shove and he had called PD, I can indeed say I felt threatened (his looking all around and putting his hand in his pocket), and all I wanted to do was diffuse the situation. I could have said "Nahhh... I don't feel threatened. Have a good morning". Had HE escalated things, then I could have used that verbage to help diffuse the situation. After all, I did have a means of protection.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Eating at MacDonalds? Not often, I assure you!!

[THaves]

I think it good to talk about these situations. You are correct we are always learning.

In my mind the most important point to remember is the distance. The BG closed from 30 feet to 6 feet. You are vulnerable sat in your car , window open at a lower lever than your attacker. At 6 feet I assure you I can lunge at you with a knife before you can react. If you think about it you probably had your seat belt on as well which would have further inhibited your movement.

In a situation like this it was already too late to draw as your gun was under your leg, if it had been already in your hand by the door handle you could have just popped it up through the window.


So I think what I am saying is I liked that you spotted the situation you were aware of your surroundings, but if you were really that worried about him and you watched him close from 30 to 6 feet, you should have already wound up the window or moved the car. In the time he was closing towards you that was the time for you to retreat, at 6 feet you have to take action because you are already in trouble and your words did the job....this time !

I have been in that situtaion where you are wondering if you should draw, many things are going though your mind, I respectfully suggest that many of us are probably scared to draw, not the act it self but the repocussions afterwards. Funny really that in a life and death situation your are thinking about getting into trouble after the event rather than saving your own life and it does cloud your judgment.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Saying you are armed and showing you are armed are two different things. However, if he decides to call the cops on you saying you pulled a gun on him, you might be in trouble. Of course, he would have to be able to describe the gun. But the odds are all he would need to say to describe it was "black". And no offense to any LEOs, but I wouldn't want to rely on them to believe you over a hype/bum, especially if they do happen to find a gun (legal or not). Odds are that this guy wouldn't have called the cops even if you did pull your gun. These type of people tend to not do that. But if someone else saw you, that might be a different story.

Glad it worked out good for you. You put that guy in his place.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by G30 Steve

That said, Greg, do you have a suggested response we could try to employ in similar situations?

Sometimes just looking them in the eye and smiling is all you need to do. They have no idea what you are up to.

Asking them a strange question in response is also a fun way to throw them off. I've done it to several "undersirable" people in LA when asked for money. My favorite - "I like pickles and maters on my fried twinkies, do you like that too?" Imagine this in a Karl Childers (Billy Bob Thornton from SlingBlade) impersonation. Using sign language is also another way to throw them off; however, that might not have worked since you were in a drive thru.

[Sigman]

Be careful on telling people your armed so they don't use it against you. (In court) Glad it worked out for you and scare some sense into the BG. I had a friend that was about to be jumped at his place of business and did the pull your shirt up to show the butt of the gun trick. It worked they all took off but later he was in court because the BG told the police he pulled the gun a stuck it in his face in front of his kids. He lost his gun and was on house arrest for a while for it.

[K-dog.v3]

I don't like the drive up window. I do use them but not if I am north of the 405/5.

[IAmASensFan]

I always tell people I'm armed...





























...and legged everytime I gas up my car.