Telling LEO

[wrangler41]

I work in a gunshop. Due to it's location we deal with many LE departments.
Kern. Inyo, San Bernadino Sheriff's, BLM, Forest Service and NPS Rangers, DFG wardens and CHP as well as local police.
I run my own unscientific survey by asking the officers what they would want.

The general concensus it that they would apprecieate it if you would say "Officer, I have a permit to carry a firearm, and I am carrying on my right hip. How would you like to proceed?"

Notice I said "firearm" not "gun". Gun is a warning word that they key on. Firearm draws a second or two blank stare while they convert that word to gun thereby avoiding the adrenelin trigger.

While I realize that this is a rural area and LEO's have a different mindset here than in the big cities.
PERSONALLY, I would tell here and think twice about LA county.

This is a decision each of us must make for themselves.

[NSP]

I don't use the word "gun" myself. I've grown accostomed to using "carrying" personally.

[gr8fatman]

This may be a stupid question. But, I will always be a passenger. When I do get my CCW, should I notify LEO when I'm not the focus of his or her traffic stop?

[gr8fatman]

BTW wrangler41, thanks for posting your informal survey.

[Bombard]

Originally Posted by gr8fatman

This may be a stupid question. But, I will always be a passenger. When I do get my CCW, should I notify LEO when I'm not the focus of his or her traffic stop?

It may not be an issue for you. CCW holders from Orange County are required to notify LE when any contact is made. I don't know what Shasta County requires - but it may be different.

[Tom98915]

I just hand them my ID and rice paper (It's in a ID wallet just for that purpose). Many of the Sheriff LEOs here know me and know that I carry, and it's not an issue with them. Sometimes I have the fortune of their company at the local shooting range.
It's reasons like this that I like being a gov't emplyee

[rickr96]

Originally Posted by gr8fatman

This may be a stupid question. But, I will always be a passenger. When I do get my CCW, should I notify LEO when I'm not the focus of his or her traffic stop?

Yes.
When LEO makes a car stop, he/she is in contact with all occupants.
OCSD requires us to disclose we are CCW even as a passengers.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by gr8fatman

This may be a stupid question. But, I will always be a passenger. When I do get my CCW, should I notify LEO when I'm not the focus of his or her traffic stop?

Only if your issuing agency requires you to notify. CA law does not require notification, but the terms of your license might.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

I use "I'm legally armed", rather than firearm or gun or weapon...permit..ccw...etc. Most of the sentence is lost to the ears, once "firearm or gun or weapon" is heard. Most on the forum believe simply handing the permit over with DL is the way to go.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by SierraNevadaCCW

I use "I'm legally armed", rather than firearm or gun or weapon...permit..ccw...etc. Most of the sentence is lost to the ears, once "firearm or gun or weapon" is heard. Most on the forum believe simply handing the permit over with DL is the way to go.

The only time I've had to inform, I did so by handing over my license to the officer and said "I'm required to show you this." Nothing else. I won't even say "CCW" since I have heard dispatchers use that term when sending officers to a scene and they are referring to someone carrying, usually illegally.

[CA PI]

A about a half dozen years ago I ran a poll through our IDPA club asking a similar question about when you should/are required to inform LEO that you are armed. The results where rather surprising.

I posed this question from an incident that I had. I was working late one night and on my way home I ran into a DUI check point manned by officers from Ceres, PD (Just south of Modesto). While the officer was standing at my window, after I had given him my DL and registration, I told him that I was waiting for my CCW and once I received it would/should I inform him that I was armed? He immediately tensed up and told me that I was required to inform him immediately "It is the law!" Well, I don't know all of the Penal Code sections so I asked him, "I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the PC Section requiring that. What is the code section, I will have to be more informed I guess." His response was something along the line of "Well, I don't know the exact section, but it is in there."

Of the 20-30 people queried everyone except 2 thought they should inform LEOs immediately. Everything from "It is the law" to "They will be nicer/easier on me because they will know that I am a good guy." was the reasoning. The two deviant votes came from LEOs. Between them, at the time, they had almost 5 decades of law enforcement experience. Both were firearm instructors for their departments and had been for at least 15 years each. They've taught at Gunsite, Quantico and a number of other prestigious schools. In summary, they were the most qualified to answer the poll. They both said that if you had minor contact or had been stopped for an infraction DO NOT MENTION IT! Traffic stops are already a high stress stop, why make it worse? THERE IS NO LAW REQUIRING A CCW HOLDER TO INFORM AN OFFICER HE IS ARMED UNLESS HE IS SPECIFICALLY ASKED IF HE IS CARRYING ANY WEAPONS. If you get a felony stop? Well, full disclosure before they find it would be a good idea, all the while doing EXACTLY what the LEOs are telling you to do.

I will have to try to find the article and reprint it here, I did it for our monthly newsletter. It was quite interesting.

Geno

[Bombard]

Originally Posted by CA PI

THERE IS NO LAW REQUIRING A CCW HOLDER TO INFORM AN OFFICER HE IS ARMED UNLESS HE IS SPECIFICALLY ASKED IF HE IS CARRYING ANY WEAPONS.

In Orange County, notification for ANY LEO contact is Sheriff's Department policy. Violating the policy isn't a criminal offense, but it will get your CCW removed.

That's just OC - other Sheriffs have different takes on it. But it's policy for OC CCW holders no matter what county they're in. OTOH, CCW holders from other counties who happen to be stopped by OCSD aren't bound by our policy, they have to follow their own issuing department's policy.

[CA PI]

Is there a note or message attached to the permit stating as much? For instance, on permits issued by Modesto PD there is a small note attached to the back of the permit that states:

"TO ANY POLICE OFFICER: Where there is cause to believe that the holder is in violation of any of these restrictions, please confiscate the permit and return it to the Modesto Police Department - Investigations Division.

I understand that:

This CCW license will be considered invalid if I have been consuming or am under the influence of drugs of alcohol.

This CCW license will be considered invalid while I am at a location where the primary purpose is the sale and consumption of alcohol.

This CCW license will considered invalid while I am at any location known or found to be a location where the sales of illegal drugs may occur.

This CCW license will be considered invalid if it is found that I have committed any unlawful act.

I must notify the Modesto Police Department in writing within ten (10) days of any change in my place of residence.

Signature of License Holder"

Though it doesn't say so, I have been told that if that note isn't always attached to the permit the permit is then invalid as well. But, in OC's example, how would a cop in Alameda County know that he should have been told immediately of the existence of the permit, should the contact ever be made?

Just curious.

Geno

[NSP]

Originally Posted by CA PI

THERE IS NO LAW REQUIRING A CCW HOLDER TO INFORM AN OFFICER HE IS ARMED UNLESS HE IS SPECIFICALLY ASKED IF HE IS CARRYING ANY WEAPONS. If you get a felony stop? Well, full disclosure before they find it would be a good idea, all the while doing EXACTLY what the LEOs are telling you to do.

The guy who gave me my permit told me that I am to inform an officer if they so much as speak to me in line at a fast food place. I'll go with that thankyouverymuch.

[gr8fatman]

Spoke with the local CCW trainer in Shasta County. He described contact in this county as meaning, "Officer intends to detain". As in the passenger of a car that is pulled over, disclosure in not required unless the passenger becomes part of the investgation, or they are asked for ID. I have not been through the class yet, but this info is from a brief phone conversation with the instructor. I'm sure there is much more detail to these rules.