To tell or not to tell ?

[FireArms101]

From reading all the postings I've concluded that since OC requires that you notify a LEO when contact is made I would suggest following that requirement. Think of it this way, if for some strange and unexplainable reason a gust of wind blows threw your car lifting your shirt up and exposing your firearm the LEO will most likely at gun point have you step out of the vehicle, take your firearm away (hopefully temporary) handcuff you then search you and only after raising his adrenaline (and other officers after calling it in) will he locate your permit and be pretty ticked off that you did not notify him in the first place.

Beside all that happening your kids would witness it all possibly scaring them for life by creating fear and dislike for LEO's after seeing their own father thrown around a bit. Most importantly of course you would most likely have your CCW pulled after that.

Basically I would suggest that you let the officer know by handing over your DL and CCW while informing them that you would like them to take a look at something (your rice paper and DL).

[Poogsdad]

Calex59, the flaws in your logic regarding notification of CCW to LEOs have already been pointed out quite clearly by others on this forum, so I won't do so.

Likewise, your apparent ambivilance toward LEOs has been noted and our intolerance for LEO bashing has also been pointed out.

As hbliam also stated "I do not need a warrant to legally search you".

JandJDude asked you some good questions, "Have you ever worked as a LEO? Federal Agent" ?

"Or, at a larger stretch, served in the armed forces? Parole Officer? Armored car guard? ANY job that requires being around guns on a daily basis"?

Now, answer the questions.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by FireArms101

From reading all the postings I've concluded that since OC requires that you notify a LEO when contact is made I would suggest following that requirement. Think of it this way, if for some strange and unexplainable reason a gust of wind blows threw your car lifting your shirt up and exposing your firearm the LEO will most likely at gun point have you step out of the vehicle, take your firearm away (hopefully temporary) handcuff you then search you and only after raising his adrenaline (and other officers after calling it in) will he locate your permit and be pretty ticked off that you did not notify him in the first place.

Beside all that happening your kids would witness it all possibly scaring them for life by creating fear and dislike for LEO's after seeing their own father thrown around a bit. Most importantly of course you would most likely have your CCW pulled after that.

Basically I would suggest that you let the officer know by handing over your DL and CCW while informing them that you would like them to take a look at something (your rice paper and DL).

"threw" (I threw the ball) - "through" (The wind blew through the trees)

I couldn't really understand the rest of what you wrote. I'm sorry.

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but your style gives me the impression that you are somewhat anti-law enforcement. Perhaps it's just because we are on the Internet - I don't know. You tell me.

Having been a law enforcement officer in southern California, your posts give me - personally - that idea.

Again....maybe I'm completely wrong or just half-right. Beats me.

Most people who haven't been in law enforcement are unable to see it from our point of view. It's a complex, dangerous and difficult job. At the end of the day, we just want to go home to our families.

If a gust of wind blows your shirt and reveals your gun...I take it seriously. I don't know you, I don't know if those are your kids, you talk about...all I see is a man with a firearm.

You could be Joe honest citizen....or a child molester fresh out of prison. You could be a father who just kidnapped his kids and wants to go on a rampage. I DON'T KNOW... I have kids too. The county has me dressed up in this uniform and sends me out into the war zone you folks blissfully bee-bop though and call home. My kid at home wants to see his dad after work.

So put that together along with my training, suspicious nature and survival instincts...and you have a cop who is going to approach the situation with your rear-end on the pavement until further notice.

If it offends you or ruffles your libertarian feathers a bit....I don't care. I have MY kids to think about. I have MY job to do.

So put your ever-lovin hands up.

If at the end, you turned out to be Joe Honest Citizen....I'd apologize and send you on your way....maybe give your kid a baseball card or sticker.

[Poogsdad]

Originally Posted by SierraNevadaCCW

"threw" (I threw the ball) - "through" (The wind blew through the trees)

I couldn't really understand the rest of what you wrote. I'm sorry.

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but your style gives me the impression that you are somewhat anti-law enforcement. Perhaps it's just because we are on the Internet - I don't know. You tell me.

Having been a law enforcement officer in southern California, your posts give me - personally - that idea.

Again....maybe I'm completely wrong or just half-right. Beats me.

Most people who haven't been in law enforcement are unable to see it from our point of view. It's a complex, dangerous and difficult job. At the end of the day, we just want to go home to our families.

If a gust of wind blows your shirt and reveals your gun...I take it seriously. I don't know you, I don't know if those are your kids, you talk about...all I see is a man with a firearm.

You could be Joe honest citizen....or a child molester fresh out of prison. You could be a father who just kidnapped his kids and wants to go on a rampage. I DON'T KNOW... I have kids too. The county has me dressed up in this uniform and sends me out into the war zone you folks blissfully bee-bop though and call home. My kid at home wants to see his dad after work.

So put that together along with my training, suspicious nature and survival instincts...and you have a cop who is going to approach the situation with your rear-end on the pavement until further notice.

If it offends you or ruffles your libertarian feathers a bit....I don't care. I have MY kids to think about. I have MY job to do.

So put your ever-lovin hands up.

If at the end, you turned out to be Joe Honest Citizen....I'd apologize and send you on your way....maybe give your kid a baseball card or sticker.

Great response SierraNevadaCCW, I could not agree more.

Thanks.

[Bombard]

Originally Posted by Quietpi

Stood in line in a Starbucks today with a member of the local constabulary. We had some fun while waiting for our "Joe:" "Hey, buddy, don't be decaf'ing me!"

If I were issued from your county, that's what I'd do. But since I AM from OC, I would (and have) erred on the side of caution. "Excuse me officer. My issuing authority requires me to inform you that I have a CCW permit, and that I am exercising it now."

I've done it twice so far. The first time was in line at a fast food place with an OCSD deputy behind me. I wouldn't have told him, but he and my little girl struck up a conversation and he looked up at me to make sure it was ok.

He looked confused for about a second while he thought about it, figured out what I was saying and smiled and nodded. Then he and the little girl had a nice conversation about catching bad guys.

The second time was a couple of weeks ago. I witnessed a car crash - guy drove through a red light, got hit and spun around about 6 times. I was next to him and I stopped for the light when he kept going. So I stopped and rendered what aid I could, and gave the officer a statement. Informing him was about the 3rd thing I said.

His reaction was more enthusiastic. He thought it was great, wanted to know what I carried, where I got trained, if I'd had any trouble with it. We had to cut it a little short to get back to recording what had happened with the cars.

[Bombard]

Originally Posted by SierraNevadaCCW

If at the end, you turned out to be Joe Honest Citizen....I'd apologize and send you on your way....maybe give your kid a baseball card or sticker.

Never underestimate the power of a sticker. Not being snide or sarcastic, they work magic on kids.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by Bombard

Never underestimate the power of a sticker. Not being snide or sarcastic, they work magic on kids.

Oh I know...they do. I have a collection of LAPD baseball cards...with Steve Garvey, etc. Got em in the 70's when they'd cruise my street.

[Hoser]

It would be nice if the new OC sheriff were to remove the requirement to advise. It's one thing to tell when you're on a car stop or some other "official" type of contact, but having to to tell a LEO because they're talking to you and your kids at McDonald's doesnt't make sense.

I'd also like to see the no lasers policy go away. I'm not a big laser fan, but on some guns they make sense (j-frames, for example.)

[swdr]

Originally Posted by calex59

One, thanks for all the replys that imply that I am an idiot, I always greatly appreciate people(usually my junior in years and experience)telling me what a dumb a** I am. ... Real LEOs, and they are few and far between, don't care if you disclose, because law abiding citizens won't kill them but criminals will.

It doesn't seem to me that "years and experience" are adding up to either knowledge or wisdom in your discussion of "Real LEOs".

[MadMex]

There’s some very messed up thinking in this thread.

When I’m out and about, if I see an LEO and the circumstances permit I take the initiative, introduce myself (first and last name), and thank them for their service. The last thing on my mind is to bring up CCW.

Paranoia will destroy’a!

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by MadMex

There’s some very messed up thinking in this thread...

The last thing on my mind is to bring up CCW.

Well, since you're location is "at large" I don't know where your CCW license was issued. But if it was issued by OCSD, it had better be more than the last thing on your mind. According to the terms of issuance in OC, you are required to disclose when a law enforcement officer contacts you. This isn't "messed up thinking in this thread." It is a requirement placed by the Sheriff. You don't get to disregard it, unless you want to risk losing your permit.

[rycerz]

Originally Posted by THE Gimper

Well, since you're location is "at large" I don't know where your CCW license was issued. But if it was issued by OCSD, it had better be more than the last thing on your mind. According to the terms of issuance in OC, you are required to disclose when a law enforcement officer contacts you. This isn't "messed up thinking in this thread." It is a requirement placed by the Sheriff. You don't get to disregard it, unless you want to risk losing your permit.

Yup. Whether you agree with the rule or not it is there. Not obeying that rule means you're breaking the trust that the OCSD has placed in you when they issued the CCW. Btw, OC in CA is not the only place that has that rule. I believe couple states have that requirement as well as a whole state.

So if you have an OCSD issued permit, get over it and notify the LEO during contact. If it's not an OCSD issued permit, follow the rules by your issuing authority.

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by rycerz

Yup. Whether you agree with the rule or not it is there. Not obeying that rule means you're breaking the trust that the OCSD has placed in you when they issued the CCW. Btw, OC in CA is not the only place that has that rule. I believe couple states have that requirement as well as a whole state.

So if you have an OCSD issued permit, get over it and notify the LEO during contact. If it's not an OCSD issued permit, follow the rules by your issuing authority.

I believe Texas has that rule.

[MadMex]

In OC when a skycop is hovering over your house are you required to run outside and wave your papers in the air?

How about when you’re passing through a DUI checkpoint?

What about passing through a construction zone and the trooper motions YOU, the lead car, to stop?

Better yet, how about when a policeman motions YOU, the lead car, to stop so a funeral motorcade can have the right of way?

Seriously, it would be interesting to have your Sheriff respond to SierraNevadaCCW’s quiz.

[RomanDad]

Originally Posted by MadMex

In OC when a skycop is hovering over your house are you required to run outside and wave your papers in the air?

How about when you’re passing through a DUI checkpoint?

What about passing through a construction zone and the trooper motions YOU, the lead car, to stop?

Better yet, how about when a policeman motions YOU, the lead car, to stop so a funeral motorcade can have the right of way?

Seriously, it would be interesting to have your Sheriff respond to SierraNevadaCCW’s quiz.

None of those would be considered "contact" (And Im not sure the cop in line behind you at the Starbucks would either. Thats a gray area where I would decide based on how "Chatty" the LEO got.... I go out of my way to NOT have contact with LEOs in uniform.... And not because I dont like them. But because they dont bother me when Im at work, I like to extend them the same courtesy. For certain, until HE says something to ME, Im not saying ANYTHING TO HIM. Hes just another dude in the Starbucks and I go out of my way not to notice him.)

To me "Contact" means when you are approached by a police officer in the course of his duties and he verbally makes you aware that he wants to have an official chat with you. Its a term of art LEOs use in their reports. EG- Car stops at the point he walks up to the window. A DUI Check point when YOU are the car they randomly pick. On a "PEDESTRIAN CONTACT" when they say "Sir, step over here a minute." etc.

I think the contact inform rule is SMART. It lets the LEOS know RIGHT FROM THE GET GO, that theyre dealing with a good guy, and keeps the issue from going south when they accidentally see the gun. I would do it whether OCSD required me to or not, because I know that if the cop SEES the gun (Pretty impossible for me to get my wallet out while sitting in a car and NOT have him see it) I know hes going to point his gun in my face... And I know when guns are pointed in peoples faces, ACCIDENTS CAN HAPPEN... AND I COULD END UP DEAD....