To tell or not to tell ?

[RomanDad]

Originally Posted by Tough Guy Levi

Howdy All:


Sunday in Irvine, CA I attended an Israel Expo at the Samueli Jewish Campus riding my Harley to the event for parking ease plus again the weather was very appropriate for my 'means' of transportation. Again wearing my 'Harley-Davidson' fanny pack, I noticed a security station with two armed security types plus Irvine LEO's a few feet removed behind the security station. I witnessed all packages, purses and etc being examined thus prior to me going through the security station, I removed my CA Drivers License and CA CCW (Carry Concealed Weapon) permit issued by the Orange County Sheriff Department from my wallet to have them available. After waiting my turn in line I handed both 'documents' to one of the security types (both armed). He nodded his head and waved me past him wtihout examining my fanny pack. I didn't get very far because an Irvine LEO who was observing those in line, asked me to show him what I shown to the security type. I hadn't had a chance to put my CA Drivers License and CCW permit away in my wallet thus handed these to the Irvine LEO. He gave them back to me and said the campus was privately owned and if the owners didn't want me to be CCW armed, I would have to remove what I was carrying and place it in one of my Harley saddlebags. I then asked why he stopped me and he said since all packages etc were being examined, he was curious why security didn't check my 'Harley' fanny pack! Note, I was waiting in line with lots of people in front and to the rear of me.

After the Irvine LEO encounter, I walked down many stairs to the event, purchased an event ticket and you guessed it, there's another security station. Hmm, Monday night quarterbacking, I now knew why the Irvine LEO informed me about the campus being privately owned CCW etc! Only this station isn't manned by the security types nor Irvine LEO I encountered in the campus parking lot entrance. These types aren't checking bags or anything. Both are wearing dark sun glasses, tactical pants/t-shirts, armed and scanning those handing entrance tickets to attendants. I get within 5' of one of them (for your info- I'm wearing a T-Shirt with a Star of David plus lettering - MY HOG IS KOSHER) and one 'scanner' with foreign accent (take a guess where he was from!) asks me what's in the fanny pack? Before I retrieve my wallet in the 11:30 position in my waist-band, I inform him I have documents I need to show him prior to me telling him what's in my fanny pack besides my camera/cell phone. With my left hand I retrieved my wallet and using both hands extract my previously described documents and hand them to him. Both of then look at my documents, one hands them back to me and says "don't display IT unless you have to", smiles and waves me through his side of his security station. )

EXCELLENT and VERY interesting write up!

[MadMex]

Originally Posted by Tough Guy Levi

Howdy All:

Saturday I attended an Armenian chuch fair in Montebello, CA (SoCA) while wearing my Tommy's Guns fanny pack adorned with a Harley-Davidson patch. I rode my Harley to the event with a friend. The food, music and all were very pleasant as was the weather. There were armed security guards but no secuity inspection 'stations'. None of the armed security types walking around gave my fanny pack a second glance. I was also wearing a HD T-Shirt.

Sunday in Irvine, CA I attended an Israel Expo at the Samueli Jewish Campus riding my Harley to the event for parking ease plus again the weather was very appropriate for my 'means' of transportation. Again wearing my 'Harley-Davidson' fanny pack, I noticed a security station with two armed security types plus Irvine LEO's a few feet removed behind the security station. I witnessed all packages, purses and etc being examined thus prior to me going through the security station, I removed my CA Drivers License and CA CCW (Carry Concealed Weapon) permit issued by the Orange County Sheriff Department from my wallet to have them available. After waiting my turn in line I handed both 'documents' to one of the security types (both armed). He nodded his head and waved me past him wtihout examining my fanny pack. I didn't get very far because an Irvine LEO who was observing those in line, asked me to show him what I shown to the security type. I hadn't had a chance to put my CA Drivers License and CCW permit away in my wallet thus handed these to the Irvine LEO. He gave them back to me and said the campus was privately owned and if the owners didn't want me to be CCW armed, I would have to remove what I was carrying and place it in one of my Harley saddlebags. I then asked why he stopped me and he said since all packages etc were being examined, he was curious why security didn't check my 'Harley' fanny pack! Note, I was waiting in line with lots of people in front and to the rear of me.

After the Irvine LEO encounter, I walked down many stairs to the event, purchased an event ticket and you guessed it, there's another security station. Hmm, Monday night quarterbacking, I now knew why the Irvine LEO informed me about the campus being privately owned CCW etc! Only this station isn't manned by the security types nor Irvine LEO I encountered in the campus parking lot entrance. These types aren't checking bags or anything. Both are wearing dark sun glasses, tactical pants/t-shirts, armed and scanning those handing entrance tickets to attendants. I get within 5' of one of them (for your info- I'm wearing a T-Shirt with a Star of David plus lettering - MY HOG IS KOSHER) and one 'scanner' with foreign accent (take a guess where he was from!) asks me what's in the fanny pack? Before I retrieve my wallet in the 11:30 position in my waist-band, I inform him I have documents I need to show him prior to me telling him what's in my fanny pack besides my camera/cell phone. With my left hand I retrieved my wallet and using both hands extract my previously described documents and hand them to him. Both of then look at my documents, one hands them back to me and says "don't display IT unless you have to", smiles and waves me through his side of his security station.

Later, an Irvine LEO motor officer whom I've met while training at Raahauge Shooting Enterprises in Norco, CA stops to inquire where I purchased my T-shirt (Star of Davidson) and then said, "haven't we met"? Yes, I informed him at Raahauges in Norco. We chatted about my T-shirt, training, Cowboy Action Shooting and naturally, weapons. Irvine PD just issued Sig P220s to their motor officers because their previous carry (didn't ask make) slides were rusting. If I am not mistaken, the Sig P220 stainless steel slides are coated! He hadn't even practiced with it yet! He asked me if I was carrying and I told him yes and he gave me this - you've got to be kidding look! I just shrugged my shoulders, said my goodbyes and when I turned around, I nearly got knocked over by a Camel's rear end (honest- I wasn't drinking or smoking)! One of the Expos attractions was a Camel ride and there were many lined up for that experience. HEADLINES - CCW Permit Holder Run over by Camel during Israel Expo in Irvine CA!! ONLY KIDDING!!

Great weekend! Food, music, entertainment, weather and security/LEO encounters!

Tough Guy Levi
SASS# 61430L
NRA Cert. Pistol Instructor
NRA Life Member (1967)

I’m glad everything worked out well. One of the things I find particularly appalling about OC’s “condition” is if a CCW is traveling with other people, people the CCW doesn’t want to know about his/her rice paper. How do you explain all the obligatory paper swapping gymnastics to your companions without compromising your privacy about having rice paper?

[Mad Geek]

Originally Posted by MadMex

I’m glad everything worked out well. One of the things I find particularly appalling about OC’s “condition” is if a CCW is traveling with other people, people the CCW doesn’t want to know about his/her rice paper. How do you explain all the obligatory paper swapping gymnastics to your companions without compromising your privacy about having rice paper?

Maybe something like "I'm a military contractor for a government security agency and required to identify myself." or "I had to let them know I'm with the band." , "I'm required since I'm a registered sex offender" or a multitude of amusing responses that would likely end the queries.

Never having thought about it, I was able to come up with several responses that would just be shrugged off and the conversation dropped. While it may be something to consider, it sounded like this was a non-issue for Levi.

[45 ACP]

Originally Posted by MadMex

I’m glad everything worked out well. One of the things I find particularly appalling about OC’s “condition” is if a CCW is traveling with other people, people the CCW doesn’t want to know about his/her rice paper. How do you explain all the obligatory paper swapping gymnastics to your companions without compromising your privacy about having rice paper?

Easy.

Accept the fact that life is all about compromise and drive on.

Given TGLevi's story, I don't see how lack of OC's "appalling condition" would have changed the outcome in any other county (i.e. not having to show your CCW permit/license/whatever.)

I've had to show my badge in situations where I would have preferred no one know I'm a cop. I had a choice:

1. Do it

2. Leave

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by MadMex

I’m glad everything worked out well. One of the things I find particularly appalling about OC’s “condition” is if a CCW is traveling with other people, people the CCW doesn’t want to know about his/her rice paper. How do you explain all the obligatory paper swapping gymnastics to your companions without compromising your privacy about having rice paper?

I think in some situations, the LEO will probably ask you questions about it that your companions may overhear. They might not say "gun", but will probably ask you other questions that may be hard to explain if you don't want others knowing. Questions like "Are you carrying now?", "Do you have it on you now?", "Where is it at?", "Which one are you carrying?", etc. I just assume my cover is blown if I need to show it to an LEO in front of others.

Of course, you could try to hand over your permit while saying something like, "I am required to show you this, but can we discuss in private (or away from others) if that is okay with you?" If they go for it, then you can tell your buddies you're James Bond or something.

[Mad Geek]

...you can tell your buddies you're James Bond or something.

I like that one.

[MadMex]

Originally Posted by Spicy McHaggis

I think in some situations, the LEO will probably ask you questions about it that your companions may overhear. They might not say "gun", but will probably ask you other questions that may be hard to explain if you don't want others knowing. Questions like "Are you carrying now?", "Do you have it on you now?", "Where is it at?", "Which one are you carrying?", etc. I just assume my cover is blown if I need to show it to an LEO in front of others.

Of course, you could try to hand over your permit while saying something like, "I am required to show you this, but can we discuss in private (or away from others) if that is okay with you?" If they go for it, then you can tell your buddies you're James Bond or something.

That’s about all I could come up with as well. Having to discuss the matter in the presence of co-workers could be a drag or even downright catastrophic, depending on your employer’s HR policies.

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by MadMex

I’m glad everything worked out well. One of the things I find particularly appalling about OC’s “condition” is if a CCW is traveling with other people, people the CCW doesn’t want to know about his/her rice paper. How do you explain all the obligatory paper swapping gymnastics to your companions without compromising your privacy about having rice paper?

Originally Posted by Mad Geek

Maybe something like "I'm a military contractor for a government security agency and required to identify myself." or "I had to let them know I'm with the band." , "I'm required since I'm a registered sex offender" or a multitude of amusing responses that would likely end the queries.

Never having thought about it, I was able to come up with several responses that would just be shrugged off and the conversation dropped. While it may be something to consider, it sounded like this was a non-issue for Levi.

How about, "It's none of your business"? I have no obligation to family, friends, coworkers, or traveling companions to explain my actions.

[Bombard]

"I'm sorry, it's proprietary."

[MadMex]

Originally Posted by THE Gimper

How about, "It's none of your business"? I have no obligation to family, friends, coworkers, or traveling companions to explain my actions.

Agree, however this is only viable if the officer “works” with you to maintain your privacy. Otherwise your "outed" in front of everyone you're with.

<cynicism on> In the event that you are “outed” in front of people you didn’t want to know about your CCW, here’s the Q&A I plagiarized to explain the situation:

Q: Why do you carry a gun?
A: Because they said I had to.
Q: Who said you had to?
A: The voices in my head.<cynicism off>

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by MadMex

Agree, however this is only viable if the officer “works” with you to maintain your privacy. Otherwise your "outed" in front of everyone you're with.

True. If the officer decides that you need to be disarmed, you're not going to be able to keep it a secret anymore. There is a risk of that. If however, he simply asks some questions without mentioning the word "gun" you will probably be OK.

[RomanDad]

Good lord this is a lot to do about nothing..... Has anybody here EVER been asked to disarm, or even been ASKED to see the CCW by an LEO??? In the case above the Irvine PD asked to see whatever the OP had shown the security guard. The cat was already out of the bag and the cop couldnt figure out was going on so he asked for an explanation.... Good police work.

This is a case of looking for a problem where one doesnt exist.

IF YOU DONT WANT TO SHOW AN OFFICER YOUR CCW, WHY DO YOU HAVE ONE???

If you dont want to show the PERMIT in front of certain people, then DONT CARRY WHEN AROUND THOSE PEOPLE!

[TaxMan]

Originally Posted by RomanDad

Good lord this is a lot to do about nothing..... Has anybody here EVER been asked to disarm, or even been ASKED to see the CCW by an LEO??? In the case above the Irvine PD asked to see whatever the OP had shown the security guard. The cat was already out of the bag and the cop couldnt figure out was going on so he asked for an explanation.... Good police work.

This is a case of looking for a problem where one doesnt exist.

IF YOU DONT WANT TO SHOW AN OFFICER YOUR CCW, WHY DO YOU HAVE ONE???

If you dont want to show the PERMIT in front of certain people, then DONT CARRY WHEN AROUND THOSE PEOPLE!

[MadMex]

Originally Posted by RomanDad

IF YOU DONT WANT TO SHOW AN OFFICER YOUR CCW, WHY DO YOU HAVE ONE???

Is this to suggest that people obtain a CCW in hopes of some day having to show an officer? If given the free choice, does everyone want to show an officer?

Originally Posted by RomanDad

If you dont want to show the PERMIT in front of certain people, then DONT CARRY WHEN AROUND THOSE PEOPLE!

Can't always control this one. Sometimes acquaintances just happen to show up. Just like officers.

[TaxMan]

Retracted***Never mind***