Two Homicides in El Dorado Hills

[stunned_gunner]

While not specifically CCW this involves a 5150 with a knife, homicide, and a good Samaritan/neighbor with a handgun.

Two Homicides in El Dorado Hills
Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:58:05 -0600

http://www.co.el-dorado.ca.us/sherif..._Homicides.pdf

[OCRancher]

Yipes!

(Seems like a lot of middle eastern people considering how remote that area is)

[1buba]

Ocra,

This area - El Dorado Hills, has a lot of high end homes. One sub-division has a couple hundered $1mil + homes. Lots of computer geek management types. Some bankers, etc.

[OCRancher]

Good to know. Wondered what was going on with the neighbor having a middle eastern name, as well. Makes sense. I guess they can reach the Bay Area Tech jobs from there.

Too bad this ended in a family member also dying.

[AMS MIKE]

sad to hear about people taking their own lives and saddest part he wanted to take his family down with him. They never think about those they leave behind. Actually, they never think at all, act on instinct and when you add they are 5150, its not a good turnout in this case.

RIP to the Uncle.

[ptbarnacle]

Originally Posted by stunned_gunner

While not specifically CCW this involves a 5150 with a knife, homicide, and a good Samaritan/neighbor with a handgun.

Two Homicides in El Dorado Hills
Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:58:05 -0600

http://www.co.el-dorado.ca.us/sherif..._Homicides.pdf

We have several friends who witnessed the event, and an acquaintance who has a bullet hole in her car and garage. The witnesses are upset that the man brought out a gun and could have killed someone else. Why he fired two warning shots, I don’t know. Our street was closed down for several hours and some neighbors came over to hop fences to get to their cul-de-sac.

The neighbor was released after witness statements indicated he came out in the defense of the uncle. But interestingly, the feedback we are getting is that the Good Samaritan is the bad guy. A quote, “He could have stopped the attack with a baseball bat, and then the nephew wouldn’t be dead also.” My wife did a good job of defending the Good Samaritan but didn’t push the issue.

I know more about this, but overall, the warning shots did not help the situation and infuriated the witnesses who then felt threatened. Not a help for the publics perception of guns and CCW.

[stunned_gunner]

Originally Posted by ptbarnacle

We have several friends who witnessed the event, and an acquaintance who has a bullet hole in her car and garage. The witnesses are upset that the man brought out a gun and could have killed someone else. Why he fired two warning shots, I don’t know. Our street was closed down for several hours and some neighbors came over to hop fences to get to their cul-de-sac.

The neighbor was released after witness statements indicated he came out in the defense of the uncle. But interestingly, the feedback we are getting is that the Good Samaritan is the bad guy. A quote, “He could have stopped the attack with a baseball bat, and then the nephew wouldn’t be dead also.” My wife did a good job of defending the Good Samaritan but didn’t push the issue.

I know more about this, but overall, the warning shots did not help the situation and infuriated the witnesses who then felt threatened. Not a help for the publics perception of guns and CCW.

You've gotta wonder at the thought process (or lack thereof) behind warning shots. Stop or I'll shoot that garage?. Yeah, it doesn't reflect positively on gun owners. I won't second guess a decision not to engage a knife wielding 5150 with a baseball bat. He may have been able to put down the threat but he also could have been grievously injured or killed and there could have been more victims.

[OCRancher]

Originally Posted by ptbarnacle

We have several friends who witnessed the event, and an acquaintance who has a bullet hole in her car and garage. The witnesses are upset that the man brought out a gun and could have killed someone else. Why he fired two warning shots, I don’t know. Our street was closed down for several hours and some neighbors came over to hop fences to get to their cul-de-sac.

The neighbor was released after witness statements indicated he came out in the defense of the uncle. But interestingly, the feedback we are getting is that the Good Samaritan is the bad guy. A quote, “He could have stopped the attack with a baseball bat, and then the nephew wouldn’t be dead also.” My wife did a good job of defending the Good Samaritan but didn’t push the issue.

I know more about this, but overall, the warning shots did not help the situation and infuriated the witnesses who then felt threatened. Not a help for the publics perception of guns and CCW.

I agree. Good post.

[1buba]

Ocra,
Lots of tech stuff in Folsom, too.


pt,
Do you know if the good samaritan has a CCW? i'm assuming he just kept a gun in the house and didn't have any real training. Good intentions don't feed th bull dog when a guns involved. i don't blame him for going out, it just sounds like he didn't really understand the implications of what he was doing.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Baseball bat? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
What a tragedy.

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by 1buba

Ocra,
Lots of tech stuff in Folsom, too.


pt,
Do you know if the good samaritan has a CCW? i'm assuming he just kept a gun in the house and didn't have any real training. Good intentions don't feed th bull dog when a guns involved. i don't blame him for going out, it just sounds like he didn't really understand the implications of what he was doing.

I guess he hoped the warning shots would be enough and he would never have to fire at the man. "take a life" He might have bit off more than he could chew or was prepared to deal with in the first place.

Sorta like people that own guns and say they will never use it. But just hope to scare off an attacker with it.

[ptbarnacle]

Originally Posted by 1buba

Ocra,
Lots of tech stuff in Folsom, too.


pt,
Do you know if the good samaritan has a CCW? i'm assuming he just kept a gun in the house and didn't have any real training. Good intentions don't feed th bull dog when a guns involved. i don't blame him for going out, it just sounds like he didn't really understand the implications of what he was doing.

1buba:
I don't believe he has a CCW. Only because, he went back into house to retrieve pistol. I see him working out a bunch in his garage, so he probably knew his next door neighbor, and witnessed the panic dash from the house.

My wife said the witnesses told her the Sherriff Deputies came in 2 minutes. Don’t know if this is true, but a lot can happen before the police come. What if the home owner had a pistol nearby or a CCW and stopped the nephew before he killed his uncle? And if the home owner did have a gun, what if he didn’t lock it up and the nephew used it? 2 minutes is FAST, and the uncle still died.

It points out that you must make a choice to either be a really good witness, or get involved. Do you know the person being attacked or are you in fear for yourself or others? To what degree to outweigh the liability.

If you shoot and kill someone, be prepared to be handcuffed and taken into custody until it is sorted out. The Good Samaritan sat in the back of the squad car in front of his community while everyone was second guessing. He will wear this stigma in the community. I don't think anything less of him for getting involved, but some do. I guess I hold the warning shots in question. The warning shots still confuse me. Where can you safely fire warning shots?

Lots of good discussions with wife of what would I do in that situation. I realized a plan is needed in case something does happen. Who should my wife call for legal representation, be prepared for a search of the car or house depending on the circumstances. You may miss work and have to explain to work why.

My 2 cents.

[1buba]

Originally Posted by ptbarnacle

1buba:
I don't believe he has a CCW. Only because, he went back into house to retrieve pistol. I see him working out a bunch in his garage, so he probably knew his next door neighbor, and witnessed the panic dash from the house.

My wife said the witnesses told her the Sherriff Deputies came in 2 minutes. Don’t know if this is true, but a lot can happen before the police come. What if the home owner had a pistol nearby or a CCW and stopped the nephew before he killed his uncle? And if the home owner did have a gun, what if he didn’t lock it up and the nephew used it? 2 minutes is FAST, and the uncle still died.

It points out that you must make a choice to either be a really good witness, or get involved. Do you know the person being attacked or are you in fear for yourself or others? To what degree to outweigh the liability.

If you shoot and kill someone, be prepared to be handcuffed and taken into custody until it is sorted out. The Good Samaritan sat in the back of the squad car in front of his community while everyone was second guessing. He will wear this stigma in the community. I don't think anything less of him for getting involved, but some do. I guess I hold the warning shots in question. The warning shots still confuse me. Where can you safely fire warning shots?

Lots of good discussions with wife of what would I do in that situation. I realized a plan is needed in case something does happen. Who should my wife call for legal representation, be prepared for a search of the car or house depending on the circumstances. You may miss work and have to explain to work why.

My 2 cents.

This may be a stupid question, but do we know they were warning shots? Did he make that statement or is someone (one of the witnesses maybe) assuming that? I'm just real curious too, although I still would say he is probably a typical "buy a gun and keep it handy, but no need to train" sort of gun owner. Just my guess, and I think that i'm csupported by statistics...

[emc002]

Originally Posted by 1buba

Ocra,

This area - El Dorado Hills, has a lot of high end homes. One sub-division has a couple hundered $1mil + homes. Lots of computer geek management types. Some bankers, etc.

I grew up in EDH when the population was around 2,000 and Serrano was the best place to catch rattlesnakes... Now the population is over 20,000? and Serrano is nothing but carbon copy, cookie-cutter homes.
Man has it changed! I'm glad I move south one county!

[ptbarnacle]

Originally Posted by 1buba

This may be a stupid question, but do we know they were warning shots? Did he make that statement or is someone (one of the witnesses maybe) assuming that? I'm just real curious too, although I still would say he is probably a typical "buy a gun and keep it handy, but no need to train" sort of gun owner. Just my guess, and I think that i'm csupported by statistics...

Prety sure they were warning shots from the people we spoke to and the Sherriff's press release. The homeowner was screaming for help before the neighbor went to help.

http://www.co.el-dorado.ca.us/sherif..._UPDATEpdf.pdf

Interesting is that the one shot was not fatal and the nephew still held the knife when deputies arrived. It was the taser that forced him to release the knife. I guess a taser has negative affects on bleeding and bullet wounds- could not have been good for tissue damage.