Pulled over by the CHP while carrying

[Glock32]

how can you not

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by canuck

http://www.ocsd.org/ccwpermit/TermsOfLicense.asp


Hmmm; In orange county it is required that this be divulged immediately upon making contact with law enforcement. Not doing so violates the terms of licence therefore it can be suspeneded.

Something gets lost in the translation online. Having taken CCWI's class, I can assure you that he isn't saying DON'T inform. What he is saying is to not blurt out the word gun, because the LEO will likely key into that word only.

Duty to inform is covered if you are pulled over, and you hand over your CCW as well as your Drivers License and registration, and say something like "Officer, I'd like to point out that I have also handed you my CCW...(pause to let it register)...as it is my duty to inform you."

Too easy!

That way he is looking at it and processing it's meaning while (or slightly before) you are explaining it.

There are many ways to "inform" that you are carrying. I don't suggest the "silent display" method where you dont' say a word, you just pull it out of your waistband.

I know it sounds silly, but the reality is that they are sharing their experience for a reason...They understand the "Fog of War" that can happen if you don't present well.

And from what I hear, a good attitude goes a long way

[BearFlagger]

..

[Spicy McHaggis]

One thing about the Orange County CCW permit, number 2 in the Terms of the License http://www.ocsd.org/CCWPermit/TermsOfLicense.asp states the following:

"If contacted by a police officer for any reason, license holder shall immediately announce that they are carrying a concealed weapon and has a license to do so."

They are very specific that you "immediately announce" you are carrying and have a license to do so. Based on this statement, you must announce you are carrying and have a license. So "technically" you don't have to show it to the officer unless he asks to see it (which is part of number three in the terms of the license). I put quotes around "technically", because realistically you should give it to him right from the start.

Greg's response right from the start is the "realistic" way to approach this (bolded for emphasis).

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

NEVER tell a cop you are armed and have a CCW!. LEO's only believe what they read, they do not believe what they hear. Hand them your CDL and CCW.

Your lucky it was a CHP, any other agencey would have turned it into a felony car stop.

Originally Posted by Apeman88

Hehe.. I love this new site with all the cool emotions!

The is the best one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=areyUfCNFxY

[PirateQueen]

Originally Posted by 45 ACP

Well, as I already said: I don't work in happy land. Maybe your brand of "advice" works where you live, but not where I work. Keep that in mind next time you want to suggest how I do my job you arrogant priss.

State laws may be the same, but issuing agency guidelines certainly are not.

As to the sarcasm in the middle of your post, remember this:

You suggested someone seek a cop's opinion, I posted one. My own.

Don't like it? It comes with a double-your-money back guarantee.

I would only suggest you abide by whatever guidelines your issuing agency has. Other than that, good luck.

In this corner we have spm and in the other corner we have 45acp

[CCWInstructor]

I have been the one pulling over the car on a T-Stop, I have been told and I have been handed CCW's. One goes very well, one does not.

Because I want to go home at the end of my shift. I assume everybody is armed and they wan't to kill me. Until I personaly know otherwise.

Since when does announce only mean verbal?

[DParker]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

I have been the one pulling over the car on a T-Stop, I have been told and I have been handed CCW's. One goes very well, one does not.

Because I want to go home at the end of my shift. I assume everybody is armed and they wan't to kill me. Until I personaly know otherwise.

Since when does announce only mean verbal?

Since I've never been pulled over (last ticket was in 1982) this is just academic to me, but I'm having a hard time understanding your point.

Are you saying that if you had pulled Thaves over and he did as he described...kept both hands on steering wheel and respectfully informed you of his CCW status, what exactly are you saying you would do? You infer that it would not go "very well" for him....what exactly does that mean? Would you draw on him?

[SPM]

deleted, double post

[SPM]

Originally Posted by DParker

Are you saying that if you had pulled Thaves over and he did as he described...kept both hands on steering wheel and respectfully informed you of his CCW status, what exactly are you saying you would do? You infer that it would not go "very well" for him....what exactly does that mean? Would you draw on him?

This question is for both CCWInstructor and 45APC:

Just to repeat what Parker said, if you made a traffic stop and the driver said "Officer I have a CCW Permit... my gun is holstered on my right hip." and just sat there with his hands on the wheel, you would initiate a felony hot stop right there? You wouldn't mind explaining that one to your two or three partners that showed up to back you up on the citizen who happen to have a gun on him (legally)?

With that in mind, what if you pulled over an off duty officer and the first thing they said was "Officer, so you know I am an off duty Police Officer and I have my gun on me" ? Would that officer get felony hot stoped? That is, after all, the exact same situation with just a different allowance for having the gun.



Lastly, I think officers from states like [fill in random southern/midwest state here] have a good time laughing at officers from CA. If they did a felony car stop on every poor person who had a gun in their car or on their person, they would never clear three traffic stops a shift and their K9 units would be tied up 24/7. Those officers deal with the same type of person we do on a daily basis but a high percentage of them are armed. They DEAL with it and can remain calm and professional, while being perfectly ready to kill the person they are contacting.

-SPM

[Sigman]

Why are you guys are picking a fight with 45acp (a cop) who is giving you his ideal CCW stop and CCWI (an accual CCW instructor) who is trying to give the best way to handle a stop. Nice thing about living in the USA is you don't have to take their advise. Every officer is an individual person who is going to handle the situation differently no matter what county they work in. I suggest doing whatever you feel is the right thing to do and when the situation comes up. It's a free country

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by Sigman

Why are you guys are picking a fight with 45acp (a cop) who is giving you his ideal CCW stop and CCWI (an accual CCW instructor) who is trying to give the best way to handle a stop. Nice thing about living in the USA is you don't have to take their advise. Every officer is an individual person who is going to handle the situation differently no matter what county they work in. I suggest doing whatever you feel is the right thing to do and when the situation comes up. It's a free country

I have to 100% agree.

However if you plan on NOT taking the advice then you better have your CCW in your hand ready to present. No officer is going to let you start reaching for it after the fact. That is if you are not already spread eagle outside the car.

[Python2]

OH boy, I am now having second thoughts about applying for CCW. I might end up wetting myself if it happens to me

[DParker]

So asking a question for clarification is "picking a fight"? Life is far too short to pick fights. I just want to understand their position. I have several cop buddys and I know they don't think this way.

I've only read one post in this thread that contained a personal insult that might be construed as picking a fight and it sure wasn't me.

[45 ACP]

Originally Posted by SMP

This question is for both CCWInstructor and 45APC:

Just to repeat what Parker said, if you made a traffic stop and the driver said "Officer I have a CCW Permit... my gun is holstered on my right hip." and just sat there with his hands on the wheel, you would initiate a felony hot stop right there? You wouldn't mind explaining that one to your two or three partners that showed up to back you up on the citizen who happen to have a gun on him (legally)?

With that in mind, what if you pulled over an off duty officer and the first thing they said was "Officer, so you know I am an off duty Police Officer and I have my gun on me" ? Would that officer get felony hot stoped? That is, after all, the exact same situation with just a different allowance for having the gun.

I already said it, so I'll say it again: Do whatever you like.

As long as it's within the issuing agency's guidelines, the rest is most definitely up to you.

If you don't like my advice, don't listen to me.

If you think I'm gonna screw my gun into the temple of every single person that verbalizes anything related to firearms during a contact, then maybe you really ARE picking a fight.

Furthermore, if you think I'm going to automatically draw down on a person who says they're off duty and armed, you're just trolling for a fight.

Your solution to our philosophical disagreement is to pigeon-hole me into an "all or nothing" corner. It ain't gonna work, and here's why:

On more than one occassion, you've dropped a hint that you have law enforcement experience. If so, then you already know how important flexibility and thinking outside of the box is to this job. There is no standard response to any situation, no matter how simple on the surface it appears. There are only the basics and the rest is up to the officer in the field.

If you're not a cop, stop dropping hints.

Originally Posted by SMP

Lastly, I think officers from states like [fill in random southern/midwest state here] have a good time laughing at officers from CA. If they did a felony car stop on every poor person who had a gun in their car or on their person, they would never clear three traffic stops a shift and their K9 units would be tied up 24/7. Those officers deal with the same type of person we do on a daily basis but a high percentage of them are armed. They DEAL with it and can remain calm and professional, while being perfectly ready to kill the person they are contacting.

-SPM

Think so huh?

Why is it that CA officers as a whole are regarded as being the best at officer safety? Why is it that Southern CA officers are regarded as the best in the country (maybe even the world) when it comes to officer safety? Yeah, must be because we are all so high strung as you state.

Don't believe the hype that you see on COPS or Hot Pursuit or World's Wildest Police Chases. I've had to stop watching those shows because of all the (in my opinion) egregious officer safety violations. It stopped being entertainment a long time ago for me.

As far as the original topic, I've stopped more than my fair share of current/retired cops as well as armed professionals (bodyguards) and CCW holders. As of today, none of them have ended up on the ground or in handcuffs in the back of my car. I do however reserve the right to do whatever I feel is necessary to ensure my safety.

The bottom line is if you provide the contacting officer with your CCW permit and let him/her look at it along with your identification/DL, I believe you stand a better chance of having a normal contact. If they don't understand what you're saying, what hint you're dropping, or completely gloss over the "CCW" word and instead focus on "gun", maybe you're gonna get pulled out the car, searched, etc etc etc. Why take that chance?

I checked and cannot find anywhere in CA POST's Learning Domains where CCW permits are covered. Maybe you should apply for a position on the board?

I consider this matter concluded (from my point of view anyways) and will not comment any further unless someone brings up a new issue. I would suggest a new thread.

[Harry Carry]

And with that, I think we're done.