Pulled over by the CHP while carrying

[SierraNevadaCCW]

I always just say...Hello before I do anything else.

[TaxMan]

Originally Posted by OCResident

http://forums.realpolice.net/showthread.php?t=67177

Good post OCRes and some decent responses too.

[DParker]

Would also be a good topic for Glock Talk's Cop Talk forum.

[Spicy McHaggis]

There is really is no single right answer for how this stop was handled and how THaves handled it. However, some are better than others. Number 1) Did he do everything right? Yes. Number 2) Could he have done something else to make it better? Yes. Number 3) Could he have done something else to make it worse? Yes. Let me explain.

A traffic stop is a very dynamic situation. How an officer handles the stop is based on their training, experience, departmental regulations, neighborhood, type of stop, etc. It also depends a lot on the person that is being pulled over. What you do and say when that officer approaches you will have a great impact on how "friendly" the stop will be.

1) So, did he do everything right? Yes. He didn't say the word "gun" or any other keyword that would trigger a bad response from the officer. He also told the officer he had a permit to carry and told him the location of his weapon, without using any "trigger" words. He kept his hands on the wheel and told the officer where they were moving to when he went to grab his wallet. At this point, the officer could have treated this stop any way he wanted to to make it safe (safer actually). That is where the stop can really be different. This officer chose to believe him and asked to see the permit. THaves may or may not have seen the officer bring his hand back and rest it on his gun. (Who knows, maybe the officer didn't do this. In a bad neighborhood, it would have already been there. .)

2) Could he have done something else to make it better? Yes. But I really only see one thing to add to what he did to make it better. He could have had his wallet somewhere else so that it was easily/quickly accessible or at least just his permit. Officers don't like to see a lot of movement when they are approaching your car, so it's best to not reach into your pocket while they are approaching you. If the wallet was in the center console or even between his legs, he could have had his permit out to show the officer right away. However, I'm not used to pulling my wallet out of my pocket when I drive, because I would leave it there when I got out. Not a good thing when your permit is in it.

3) Could he have done something else to make it worse? Yes. He could have said "I have a gun" and started reaching into his pocket to get his permit. Well, I don't need to explain this one.

All LEOs that go through POST certification know about CCW permits. It's part of "LD40 Weapons Violations" training. So they should know that some people out there have them. I'm sure that Sergeant has seen a few in his time. This is a great thread that we can all learn from. There are so many variables in a "simple" traffic stop that none of us are incorrect in our responses. Unless you chose option three.

[45 ACP]

Originally Posted by SPM

Im glad you all know how LEOs think.

How about you run over to www.realpolice.net and goto their ask-a-cop section and pose this question. When an officer approaches you he is looking for weapons. If you keep your hands on the steering wheel untill told to reach for your doccuments, and then reach anywhere and the officer thinks there is a weapon present, be ready for a very high charged and angry cop. And, I'll tell you this right now, If the officer can see it in any way, including a buldge in your shirt, and you have not disclosed it beforehand, you are not in compliance with your permit. The word gun is not some magic word that gets you into a felony hot stop. I personally use the word firearm, but I have disclosed firearms plenty of times to on duty officers and have yet to even have one ask for my credentials.

I have heard many stories about all sorts of crazy things. I have YET to hear of the one where the bad guy says "Officer, just so you know, I have a gun on me" and then proceeded to draw it and fire.

If someone tells an officer they have a gun, the chances are that the officer will be MORE at ease becuase the chances of the person who just disclosed that they are carrying being a criminal has gone down.

-SPM

Also, I would almost be inclined to say that an officer would NEVER immidiatly initiate a felony car stop on you if you said something like "Officer, I have a CCW permit and I am carrying/have a gun/am armed". Really, that should be the first thing out of your mouth.

Well, I'm a real cop AND I work here in SoCal for one of the largest metropolitan agencies in the area, therefore I'm more qualified than any other cop from out of state and perhaps even yourself to comment on this issue.

First, your comment about "reach anywhere and the officer thinks there is a weapon present, be ready for a very high charged and angry cop"....does that include the glove box? Most people carry their vehicle's documents in the glove box or center console. Good weapon hiding spots, right? Do I pull out my gun every time someone reaches for those spots? C'mon..........

If I can "see it in any way", then you haven't done your job as a CONCEALED Carry Weapon permit holder. Emphasis added.

If you can't reach for your personal or vehicular documents without exposing your iron, you should either:

1. Rethink your wardrobe

2. Rethink where you put your documents

Don't think outright telling me you have a gun is going to put me at ease.
That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard or read.

Gun is a 4-letter word where I work. As an example, if I'm conducting a traffic or pedestrian stop and my cover officer yells "Gun!", guess what happens next?

Everyone gets guns pointed at them and everyone is gonna get facedown on the pavement. Period, end of discussion. Do not pass go, try not to crap your pants.

I do immediately inform any officer on a traffic stop that I'm armed. That's because I SIT ON MY GUN. I don't exactly work in "happy land" and I've been followed/threatened while going in to work or on my way home. My need for quick access negates any practical matters regarding holsters, carry methods, etc.

I also have an advantage that CCW permit holders do not have: My license plates return confidential to my agency. The majority of patrol officers (CHP many times being notable exceptions) run the plate and wait for a return before initiating a traffic stop. They are more likely to know who I am before even getting out of their car.

All this BS you read elsewhere about cops "knowing you have a CCW permit" based on your license plate it just that, BS. My unscientific survey has revealed that NO agency has this kind of tie-in between CADOJ and CADMV databases. If you knew the nature of the political power struggle between DOJ and DMV, you would understand why........

...and because I play in the dark, here's my favorite of the smilies

Welcome to the board.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

I have always told the officer that I was "legally armed" or "ccw" on every traffic stop. This goes back almost 12 years to when I got my Permit.

Some tips:
1. Again...say hello to the cop.

2. Smile

3. Nicely tell the officer "before we procede any further, I want to inform you that I am currently CCW...and my permit is in my right left back whatever pocket."

4. The officer will either say..."what's ccw?" Like the Chippy did my first time pulled over with my permit back in the 90's....or will ask you where your gun is. It's a roll of the dice on that one. lol

5. Tell the officer where your gun is holstered. Don't reach for it like a dummy. LOL

6. The "whats a ccw" CHP dude...made me get out of the car with my hands up and he took possession of my fanny pack (don't laugh..it was the 90's).
This happened to me as a Deputy also...even though I told him I was a cop..he still made me get out with my hands up. CHP...go figure. My PLATE was Confidential to my agency also...but he never ran it.

7. Every other CHP just told me to get the permit and after looking at it, handed it back and let me on my way.

All this complicated...what do I do...or don't do stuff...Just...be friendly, use common sense and don't be a dummy...and everything will be fine.

I liked the post about the guy who said...in reply to the CHP asking why he had a permit...The Orange County Sheriff issued it to me. LOL That's great.

[K-dog.v3]

good post 45ACP

[CCWInstructor]

As a reserve officer and a full time LE trainer. Don't tell me anything, show me the CCW. I just trained over 100 officers in the last three days. This county as 220 permits with 18,000. I gave them all the same question, none understood permit or lisc. 50% understood CCW.

ALL said the same thing. I not going to believe anybody.

[SPM]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

As a reserve officer and a full time LE trainer. Don't tell me anything, show me the CCW. I just trained over 100 officers in the last three days. This county as 220 permits with 18,000. I gave them all the same question, none understood permit or lisc. 50% understood CCW.

ALL said the same thing. I not going to believe anybody.

Then I will have to go back to what I said about undertrained.


If you are an academy instructor then you SHOULD be telling them about CCW. Once they are full peace officers then they should know what a CCW is and how to handle it professionally. I have no doubt that half of CA residents don't know what a CCW is. But 100 percent of cops SHOULD. And if they don't then they are not very good officers... that's something kinda important, don't you think?

-SPM

[SPM]

Originally Posted by 45 ACP

Well, I'm a real cop AND I work here in SoCal for one of the largest metropolitan agencies in the area, therefore I'm more qualified than any other cop from out of state and perhaps even yourself to comment on this issue.

First, your comment about "reach anywhere and the officer thinks there is a weapon present, be ready for a very high charged and angry cop"....does that include the glove box? Most people carry their vehicle's documents in the glove box or center console. Good weapon hiding spots, right? Do I pull out my gun every time someone reaches for those spots? C'mon..........

If I can "see it in any way", then you haven't done your job as a CONCEALED Carry Weapon permit holder. Emphasis added.

If you can't reach for your personal or vehicular documents without exposing your iron, you should either:

1. Rethink your wardrobe

2. Rethink where you put your documents

Don't think outright telling me you have a gun is going to put me at ease.
That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard or read.

Gun is a 4-letter word where I work. As an example, if I'm conducting a traffic or pedestrian stop and my cover officer yells "Gun!", guess what happens next?

Everyone gets guns pointed at them and everyone is gonna get facedown on the pavement. Period, end of discussion. Do not pass go, try not to crap your pants.

I do immediately inform any officer on a traffic stop that I'm armed. That's because I SIT ON MY GUN. I don't exactly work in "happy land" and I've been followed/threatened while going in to work or on my way home. My need for quick access negates any practical matters regarding holsters, carry methods, etc.

I also have an advantage that CCW permit holders do not have: My license plates return confidential to my agency. The majority of patrol officers (CHP many times being notable exceptions) run the plate and wait for a return before initiating a traffic stop. They are more likely to know who I am before even getting out of their car.

All this BS you read elsewhere about cops "knowing you have a CCW permit" based on your license plate it just that, BS. My unscientific survey has revealed that NO agency has this kind of tie-in between CADOJ and CADMV databases. If you knew the nature of the political power struggle between DOJ and DMV, you would understand why........

...and because I play in the dark, here's my favorite of the smilies

Welcome to the board.

Well, I'm in Centeral CA and last I checked the State Laws are all the same. Up here, either we are much more calm and can handle a person saying the word gun, or perhaps you sir need to relax. There is a huge difference between a partner yelling "gun" and someone you are looking directly at just saying the word.

There is the old joke about how a guy calls the police four times during the night about a barking dog and no one shows up. Finally, on the 5th call he says the EXACT same thing but only adds "and I think the dog has a gun"... and he got code 3 response from the whole city.

You need to listen to the WHOLE sentance and compute the WHOLE thing.

What if someone had a nail GUN in the car and you asked what was on the back seat, under the tarp? "Officer, it's a nail gun"

GUN?!!

I know, I know, extreame example - sorry.


"Officer I have a CCW permit and am carrying a gun"

WHAT YOU WANT TO KILL ME HOLY CRAP HANDS HANDS HANDS


-SPM

P.S. - Concealment does not mean "Make sure no one can see it ever no matter what position you are in". If I do a handstand, you will see my gun. Concealment generally means not directly visible and not noticable by the common person passing by. CA doesn't have a good definition for concealment other than 12020/12025 PC, which doesn't seem to help much. There is nothing in 12001 that lays it out either, which means it was left open to interpretation by the courts.

[45 ACP]

Originally Posted by SPM

Well, I'm in Centeral CA and last I checked the State Laws are all the same. Up here, either we are much more calm and can handle a person saying the word gun, or perhaps you sir need to relax. There is a huge difference between a partner yelling "gun" and someone you are looking directly at just saying the word.

There is the old joke about how a guy calls the police four times during the night about a barking dog and no one shows up. Finally, on the 5th call he says the EXACT same thing but only adds "and I think the dog has a gun"... and he got code 3 response from the whole city.

You need to listen to the WHOLE sentance and compute the WHOLE thing.

What if someone had a nail GUN in the car and you asked what was on the back seat, under the tarp? "Officer, it's a nail gun"

GUN?!!

I know, I know, extreame example - sorry.


"Officer I have a CCW permit and am carrying a gun"

WHAT YOU WANT TO KILL ME HOLY CRAP HANDS HANDS HANDS


-SPM

P.S. - Concealment does not mean "Make sure no one can see it ever no matter what position you are in". If I do a handstand, you will see my gun. Concealment generally means not directly visible and not noticable by the common person passing by. CA doesn't have a good definition for concealment other than 12020/12025 PC, which doesn't seem to help much. There is nothing in 12001 that lays it out either, which means it was left open to interpretation by the courts.

Well, as I already said: I don't work in happy land. Maybe your brand of "advice" works where you live, but not where I work. Keep that in mind next time you want to suggest how I do my job you arrogant priss.

State laws may be the same, but issuing agency guidelines certainly are not.

As to the sarcasm in the middle of your post, remember this:

You suggested someone seek a cop's opinion, I posted one. My own.

Don't like it? It comes with a double-your-money back guarantee.

I would only suggest you abide by whatever guidelines your issuing agency has. Other than that, good luck.

[OCResident]

[DParker]

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[VanLogan]

Originally Posted by 45 ACP

how I do my job you arrogant priss.

...

[Apeman88]

Hehe.. I love this new site with all the cool emotions!