Pulled over by the CHP while carrying

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by canuck

I carry my docs like this, keeps it in the open from the get go; http://www.ccwsupply.biz/CCWKeyPocketWalletPAGE.htm

Hey I like that! I am ordering one!

[canuck]

http://www.ocsd.org/ccwpermit/TermsOfLicense.asp

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

NEVER tell a cop you are armed and have a CCW!. LEO's only believe what they read, they do not believe what they hear. Hand them your CDL and CCW.

Your lucky it was a CHP, any other agencey would have turned it into a felony car stop.

Hmmm; In orange county it is required that this be divulged immediately upon making contact with law enforcement. Not doing so violates the terms of licence therefore it can be suspeneded.

[Glock32]

Originally Posted by canuck

http://www.ocsd.org/ccwpermit/TermsOfLicense.asp


Hmmm; In orange county it is required that this be divulged immediately upon making contact with law enforcement. Not doing so violates the terms of licence therefore it can be suspeneded.

Read it again. This time focus on the word 'TELL' as in don't say it. Hand the ccw over with your DL and ask the LEO to please READ the document. He/she will take it from there.

The key is to make this traffic stop/interaction with LE as uneventful as possible. You are correct with your statement regarding OC. Personally I would disclose the fact that I am carrying to any LEO I interact with. I see it as professional courtesy. I also believe it will send the right message.

Evey single role play I have particiated in the key word GUN triggered a multitude of steps initiated by the officer(s). None of them are the kind of activites I need to experience in real life. Especially not from the wrong end.

[THaves]

Originally Posted by Glock32

Read it again. This time focus on the word 'TELL' as in don't say it. Hand the ccw over with your DL and ask the LEO to please READ the document. He/she will take it from there.

The key is to make this traffic stop/interaction with LE as uneventful as possible. You are correct with your statement regarding OC. Personally I would disclose the fact that I am carrying to any LEO I interact with. I see it as professional courtesy. I also believe it will send the right message.

Evey single role play I have particiated in the key word GUN triggered a multitude of steps initiated by the officer(s). None of them are the kind of activites I need to experience in real life. Especially not from the wrong end.

Note I did NOT say to the CHP officer that I had a GUN or a Weapon, I did not want to trigger any knee jerk reaction, I said I had a California CCW, and I was carrying on my right hip. My hands never left the wheel.

[Glock32]

Originally Posted by THaves

Note I did NOT say to the CHP officer that I had a GUN or a Weapon, I did not want to trigger any knee jerk reaction, I said I had a California CCW, and I was carrying on my right hip. My hands never left the wheel.

Thaves,

I know you did not. I read your post carefully the first time around. My response was for Canuck, who misinterpreted ccwi's comment in regards to the 'must notify LEO that you are carrying a concealed weapon' per OCSD license term.

Hope this clarifies it.

[CCWInstructor]

Thanks G32. I thought I made it clear that by handing over the CDL and CCW you are Notifying them. I draw a picture next time to make it more clear.

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by THaves

Note I did NOT say to the CHP officer that I had a GUN or a Weapon, I did not want to trigger any knee jerk reaction, I said I had a California CCW, and I was carrying on my right hip. My hands never left the wheel.

Being fresh out of CCW school I was told by a "guy" that even if you tell the officer you have a CCW he MIGHT not believe you and thus he most likely will turn your interaction with him into a Felony stop. To control the situation.

By handing over the CCW in the begining he has all the evidence he needs to make the decision.

If you don't hand it over in the begining and he does not believe you....he is NOT going to let you reach into your pockets to prove yourself. YMMV!!!

[SPM]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

NEVER tell a cop you are armed and have a CCW!. LEO's only believe what they read, they do not believe what they hear. Hand them your CDL and CCW.

Your lucky it was a CHP, any other agencey would have turned it into a felony car stop.

I strongly disagree. If an officer, or his/her partner can see the gun before you declare it, it WILL turn into a felony stop and then, yes, they won't care what you say.

Also, many permits require that you declare it's presence upon contact with any LEO, and if you just reach for your wallet and 'forget' to say something then you COULD be placing your CCW at risk. I respect those who carry responsibly, but keep in mind (in CA in particular), guns and non-LE peoples are not found legally together very often. Off duty LEOs always declare their firearms to on duty LEOs when even in a casual contact. LEOs always are scanning for possible weapons, and even a well concealed weapon can print if you twist or bend wrong.

I sadly relent that even if you declare a weapon and CCW permit at the point of contact you COULD end up in a felony stop, but it is very unlikely. You would be dealing with a very unprofessional and perhaps under-trained officer. The absolute worst that should happen is the officer puts his/her hand on their weapon and asks you to go through the steps of getting out your doccuments nice and slow.

-SPM

[Glock32]

Originally Posted by SPM

I strongly disagree. If an officer, or his/her partner can see the gun before you declare it, it WILL turn into a felony stop and then, yes, they won't care what you say.

Also, many permits require that you declare it's presence upon contact with any LEO, and if you just reach for your wallet and 'forget' to say something then you COULD be placing your CCW at risk. I respect those who carry responsibly, but keep in mind (in CA in particular), guns and non-LE peoples are not found legally together very often. Off duty LEOs always declare their firearms to on duty LEOs when even in a casual contact. LEOs always are scanning for possible weapons, and even a well concealed weapon can print if you twist or bend wrong.

I sadly relent that even if you declare a weapon and CCW permit at the point of contact you COULD end up in a felony stop, but it is very unlikely. You would be dealing with a very unprofessional and perhaps under-trained officer. The absolute worst that should happen is the officer puts his/her hand on their weapon and asks you to go through the steps of getting out your doccuments nice and slow.

-SPM

O.K. I think I need to step in again. With ccwi being busy for a few days I don't want to let this one float around for too log.

1. It seems we all agree that you should disclose the fact that you are armed. In the OC it is a term of your license, meaning you MUST disclose. Other counties are different.
2. It seems there may be disagreement on the way to how best disclose the information and when. What should be avoided is the 'Officer, I have a GUN' kind of comment. Now that will get you the felony car stop for sure I would guess. Being upfront about the ccw issue is key though.

Read ccwi's comment carefully. Focus on the word 'tell'. When you tell somebody, you use your words. The suggestion here is to let the officer read the information instead of hearing it. That's the way I will handle it if I get stopped. I also keep my wallet in my center console in plain sight while driving and have my registration and proof of insurance handy, too. Just in case....
I will go with what others here have suggeted. I will hand over my DL along with my ccw. 'Officer, before I will hand you my registration and proof of insurance I would like you to read this documet'. Please let me know how you want me to proceed from here.


Comments?

[Sigman]

Originally Posted by SPM

I strongly disagree. If an officer, or his/her partner can see the gun before you declare it, it WILL turn into a felony stop and then, yes, they won't care what you say.

Also, many permits require that you declare it's presence upon contact with any LEO, and if you just reach for your wallet and 'forget' to say something then you COULD be placing your CCW at risk. I respect those who carry responsibly, but keep in mind (in CA in particular), guns and non-LE peoples are not found legally together very often. Off duty LEOs always declare their firearms to on duty LEOs when even in a casual contact. LEOs always are scanning for possible weapons, and even a well concealed weapon can print if you twist or bend wrong.

I sadly relent that even if you declare a weapon and CCW permit at the point of contact you COULD end up in a felony stop, but it is very unlikely. You would be dealing with a very unprofessional and perhaps under-trained officer. The absolute worst that should happen is the officer puts his/her hand on their weapon and asks you to go through the steps of getting out your doccuments nice and slow.

-SPM

You do that and let us know how well it works out for you. The First thing you do after a cop ask why you were pulled over is ask for your license and reg. While your at it give them you CCW. Simple. We are upstanding Civilians who are quailified to carry. The last time a heard the words I've got a gun I was running for my life. I didn't wait around to see if the guy had permit, was a cop or full of crap.

[Harry Carry]

While handing both CDL and CCW to officer/deputy: 'I'm also giving you my CCW License as required. Let me know what you want me to do next.'

[OCResident]

The whole point here is to let the LEO know you have a CCW (and they're not going to 'know' until they *SEE* it), preferably without their ears and the hair on their arms perking up because they heard the word *G*U*N*.

GUN is a special word to LEOs - it makes their ears close and they usually don't hear the rest of the sentence. Substituting words like firearm, weapon, Glock, .45, 9mm, etc. doesn't help much.

No one in this whole thread has suggested to not inform the LEO that you are carrying, the point was that it was safer to let them *SEE* it before verbalizing it. They're probably not going to just believe you without seeing it anyways, which is what makes it dangerous to just verbalize it.

I've discussed this with several LEOs and the consensus is that when they hear the word GUN theirs comes out first. YMMV.

[SPM]

Im glad you all know how LEOs think.

How about you run over to www.realpolice.net and goto their ask-a-cop section and pose this question. When an officer approaches you he is looking for weapons. If you keep your hands on the steering wheel untill told to reach for your doccuments, and then reach anywhere and the officer thinks there is a weapon present, be ready for a very high charged and angry cop. And, I'll tell you this right now, If the officer can see it in any way, including a buldge in your shirt, and you have not disclosed it beforehand, you are not in compliance with your permit. The word gun is not some magic word that gets you into a felony hot stop. I personally use the word firearm, but I have disclosed firearms plenty of times to on duty officers and have yet to even have one ask for my credentials.

I have heard many stories about all sorts of crazy things. I have YET to hear of the one where the bad guy says "Officer, just so you know, I have a gun on me" and then proceeded to draw it and fire.

If someone tells an officer they have a gun, the chances are that the officer will be MORE at ease becuase the chances of the person who just disclosed that they are carrying being a criminal has gone down.

-SPM

Also, I would almost be inclined to say that an officer would NEVER immidiatly initiate a felony car stop on you if you said something like "Officer, I have a CCW permit and I am carrying/have a gun/am armed". Really, that should be the first thing out of your mouth.

[Glock32]

Thanks for your post SPM and welcome to the site.

[OCResident]

Originally Posted by SPM

Im glad you all know how LEOs think.

How about you run over to www.realpolice.net and goto their ask-a-cop section and pose this question.

http://forums.realpolice.net/showthread.php?t=67177