CHP pulled me over yesterday

[Dan M.]

Originally Posted by YankeeDog

I have read all the 118 posts in this thread and I have a question that might be silly but it isn't addressed. If you are stopped by a LEO and are NOT carrying, should you inform him of your CCW regardless. Perhaps obvious, but I'd rather err on the side of caution.
YankeeDog in Surf City

No. It's not necessary.

[JD65]

Originally Posted by YankeeDog

If you are stopped by a LEO and are NOT carrying, should you inform him of your CCW regardless.

Bear with my thinking out loud as I look at your question...

On the Orange County Sheriff website terms of CCW page - #2 says:

"If contacted by a police officer for any reason, license holder shall immediately announce that they are carrying a concealed weapon and has a license to do so."

Several posters suggest "announce" take the form in handing them the CCW license without any further comment. Others suggest handing the permit and verbally notifying the officer [without using any "bad" words - GUN!]. Personal choice, I suppose, as long as you comply with the requirements.

If you're NOT carrying a weapon, it may appear that it's not required to notify the officer. I can see the rationale behind the policy - let law enforcement know they've got a gun in the mix immediately and let them deal with it accordingly. If you're not carrying, you are essentially a "regular" citizen being contacted by the police.

BUT . . .On the other hand...

Clause #3 says:

"License holder shall surrender the CCW license and/or concealed weapon to any peace officer upon demand."

How can they have the chance to demand it if they don't know about it? Suppose your demeanor is ratcheted up that day and you're a royal AdamHenry? Does the officer have a right to demand the license, even if you aren't carrying? Under this clause, you betcha.

Zoinks. I know somebody (not to mention names, but it rhymes with "CCWI") will give us a more definitive answer. I'm just pointing to policy and the pros and cons for each scenario.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by YankeeDog

I have read all the 118 posts in this thread and I have a question that might be silly but it isn't addressed. If you are stopped by a LEO and are NOT carrying, should you inform him of your CCW regardless. Perhaps obvious, but I'd rather err on the side of caution.
YankeeDog in Surf City

If you are not armed, you have no reason to notify.

[JD65]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

If you are not armed, you have no reason to notify.

And there you go. Mr. Concise Answer strikes again.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by JD65

Clause #3 says:

"License holder shall surrender the CCW license and/or concealed weapon to any peace officer upon demand."

How can they have the chance to demand it if they don't know about it? Suppose your demeanor is ratcheted up that day and you're a royal AdamHenry? Does the officer have a right to demand the license, even if you aren't carrying? Under this clause, you betcha.

Zoinks. I know somebody (not to mention names, but it rhymes with "CCWI") will give us a more definitive answer. I'm just pointing to policy and the pros and cons for each scenario.

#3 is there so they can take your CCW and your Firearm (I HATE the word weapon) and drop it off at the agency that issued the CCW.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by JD65

And there you go. Mr. Concise Answer strikes again.

I'll be getting even with you shortly......

[EM2]

Is it not a preemption of state law if a county requires notification even when state law does not require it?
If this were not to be the case, what then of someone traveling to other counties while carrying? They may not be aware of all of the counties requirements.

The CRPA has filed & won many lawsuits on this principle.
State law is such that counties & other municipalities cannot preempt the state with respect to firearms laws.

On numerous occasions local municipalities have tried to restrict or ban the sale & advertising of firearms (ie. gun shows) on county property, such as fairgrounds and the CRPA has sued the locality & won in court. They have often even won court costs.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by EM2

Is it not a preemption of state law if a county requires notification even when state law does not require it?
If this were not to be the case, what then of someone traveling to other counties while carrying? They may not be aware of all of the counties requirements.

The CRPA has filed & won many lawsuits on this principle.
State law is such that counties & other municipalities cannot preempt the state with respect to firearms laws.

On numerous occasions local municipalities have tried to restrict or ban the sale & advertising of firearms (ie. gun shows) on county property, such as fairgrounds and the CRPA has sued the locality & won in court. They have often even won court costs.

The requirement to notify, in OC, is not a law. It is just part of the terms of the license. You are required to notify upon any contact. It doesn't matter what county you are in when contacted. You must always notify if you have a license from Orange County.

[CCWInstructor]

A City or County cannot pre-empt state law where the State already done so.

Because State law does not address this subject. Cities and Counties may do as they want.

See Peterson Vs. Long Beach, Long Beach POA vs. Long Beach. Both 9th circuit.

CPRA has gotten involved were Cities and Counties pre-empted State law.

[DParker]

Originally Posted by EM2

Is it not a preemption of state law if a county requires notification even when state law does not require it?
If this were not to be the case, what then of someone traveling to other counties while carrying? They may not be aware of all of the counties requirements.

The CRPA has filed & won many lawsuits on this principle.
State law is such that counties & other municipalities cannot preempt the state with respect to firearms laws.

On numerous occasions local municipalities have tried to restrict or ban the sale & advertising of firearms (ie. gun shows) on county property, such as fairgrounds and the CRPA has sued the locality & won in court. They have often even won court costs.

May be a gray area, but I am sure that OCSD would say that their notification rule is merely a restriction to their permit, not law. In other words, if you carry an OCSD issued permit you are restricted from official contact with a LEO without notifying.

That does not mean that I must notify when in Orange County since my issuing agency did not include that restriction. I don't see a preemption.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by DParker

May be a gray area, but I am sure that OCSD would say that their notification rule is merely a restriction to their permit, not law. In other words, if you carry an OCSD issued permit you are restricted from official contact with a LEO without notifying.

That does not mean that I must notify when in Orange County since my issuing agency did not include that restriction. I don't see a preemption.

Correct! It also doesn't matter what county you are traveling in.

For example with my OCSD issued permit, if I'm traveling in say Shasta County and run across Sheriff Tom Bosenko riding his Harley, I would notify him. If it was a offical contact of course.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Although I am not required to disclose by my county...I do, if I'm stopped for speeding or something. It's a good idea... I would recommend it for a variety of reasons.

I do NOT disclose if I'm just chatting with an officer at the coffee shop or where ever.

[Steyr_fan]

Hi again folks! (I hope I'm not becoming a nuisance!)

If I'm carrying (after I get the permit of course), and a LEO asks me for my firearm, do I just hand it over? Say if I'm in a car, or even out on the street.

I was always taught to clear a gun before giving up custody. Ordinarily, I would drop the magazine putting it in my pocket (never give ANYBODY both your gun and your ammo!), and rack the slide back to lock to show that it is completely unarmed before handing it over.
Could these actions be construed as being threatening? As long as the movements and the gun is pointed in a completely safe direction (and within view of the officer), would he normally allow me just to clear it like that, or do they want immediate custody?

I'm sure every situation is different, but this is one of the things I've always wondered about.

Thanks!
Paul

[CCWInstructor]

Paul,

DO NOT clear it, keeping the muzzle direction safe give it to them. They will clear it and set it on the roof. The only place I know that does this is in the Fresno aea.

Greg

P.S. Questions are good, that is how we learn.

Originally Posted by Steyr_fan

Hi again folks! (I hope I'm not becoming a nuisance!)

If I'm carrying (after I get the permit of course), and a LEO asks me for my firearm, do I just hand it over? Say if I'm in a car, or even out on the street.

I was always taught to clear a gun before giving up custody. Ordinarily, I would drop the magazine putting it in my pocket (never give ANYBODY both your gun and your ammo!), and rack the slide back to lock to show that it is completely unarmed before handing it over.
Could these actions be construed as being threatening? As long as the movements and the gun is pointed in a completely safe direction (and within view of the officer), would he normally allow me just to clear it like that, or do they want immediate custody?

I'm sure every situation is different, but this is one of the things I've always wondered about.

Thanks!
Paul

[X-ffdo]

You guys think too much, you are giving me a headache!