CHP pulled me over yesterday

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by THaves

I bet the officer was really proud to be wearing the badge that day.

I'm very PROUD of him. Have you ever seen a dead child because of some fast MOM? I HAVE!!!!!

[newshooterinca]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

It is all of his/her business, you are HIS/HERS SUSPECT.

Where is everybody coming up with this stuff?

I agree with this if only because at one point while living in Phoenix I considered applying for the Phoenix P.D. Reserve. Then I really thought about what it would be like to pull over a carload of punks at night, and I changed my mind real fast.

That process left me with a lot more respect for our police. And it makes me understand why the officer will want to know first and foremost why you are armed. Put yourself in their situation and you'll want to know too.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Woohoo, one out of four ain't bad. I'll take those odds in Vegas any day!

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by Spicy McHaggis

Woohoo, one out of four ain't bad. I'll take those odds in Vegas any day!

You know better though. You lived with your Dad along time. Put yourself in his shoe's.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by SierraNevadaCCW

Forget the PR part of it...it's bad officer safety and unprofessional.

Most states are not that professional. I don't like saying that. It's the truth and we are the exception.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

It is all of his/her business, you are HIS/HERS SUSPECT.

Where is everybody coming up with this stuff?

I don't know...was he a suspect? This was a traffic stop for 23152, 10851 or was it speeding?

The whole idea of being subservant or a good subject so you don't upset the powertripper and get your permit yanked ....is something that ticks me off to perfectly frank. Call me a rebel, risk taker or trouble maker...I guess.

Just answer like my 4 year old daughter.... because. Me: but why? Answer: why because. That's not an answer... WHY? because.
Forget it.

[DParker]

Originally Posted by SierraNevadaCCW

I don't know...was he a suspect? This was a traffic stop for 23152, 10851 or was it speeding?

The whole idea of being subservant or a good subject so you don't upset the powertripper and get your permit yanked ....is something that ticks me off to perfectly frank. Call me a rebel, risk taker or trouble maker...I guess.

I have to agree.

And page five of the state application simply states that we must show our license and/or surrender the weapon to a LEO if requested. We are not required to explain or justify it to any LEO. I would argue this would be a no-win proposition in many parts of this state.

The "reason" we are armed is we have been vetted and approved by the appropriate authority (not the individual LEO) to legally carry concealed.

The LEOs only legitimate concern is if my permit is valid and if I am in full compliance with the terms of the permit. Period. He doesn't get to review my application or the judgment of the issuing authority.

[newshooterinca]

Originally Posted by DParker

I have to agree.

And page five of the state application simply states that we must show our license and/or surrender the weapon to a LEO if requested. We are not required to explain or justify it to any LEO. I would argue this would be a no-win proposition in many parts of this state.

The "reason" we are armed is we have been vetted and approved by the appropriate authority (not the individual LEO) to legally carry concealed.

The LEOs only legitimate concern is if my permit is valid and if I am in full compliance with the terms of the permit. Period. He doesn't get to review my application or the judgment of the issuing authority.

BUT ...

We are not in a shall issue state. We are in a cursed "may issue" state and the "may" means "they may take it away for any reason they see fit." So we have no choice but to play the game.

If I was an A.H. to a cop and got revoked for life I'd regret that a whole lot more than spending 5 minutes playing along and keeping my mouth shut. It sucks at the time but it's better than the alternative.

[Glock32]

Originally Posted by newshooterinca

BUT ...

We are not in a shall issue state. We are in a cursed "may issue" state and the "may" means "they may take it away for any reason they see fit." So we have no choice but to play the game.

If I was an A.H. to a cop and got revoked for life I'd regret that a whole lot more than spending 5 minutes playing along and keeping my mouth shut. It sucks at the time but it's better than the alternative.

Good one.

Yes I agree it sucks to play along sometimes. I can tell you from experience though that it is the smarter way to handle a situation like that.

Let's not forget who broke the law in the first place either.

[hygyliac]

Originally Posted by Glock32

Good one.
I can tell you from experience though that it is the smarter way to handle a situation like that.
Let's not forget who broke the law in the first place either.

Besides, we were granted the priveledge of the CCW which should mean that we are more even keeled than the average person. We shouldn't let small things muss-up our hair-do.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by newshooterinca

BUT ...

We are not in a shall issue state. We are in a cursed "may issue" state and the "may" means "they may take it away for any reason they see fit." So we have no choice but to play the game.

If I was an A.H. to a cop and got revoked for life I'd regret that a whole lot more than spending 5 minutes playing along and keeping my mouth shut. It sucks at the time but it's better than the alternative.

Very Good! Learning has accrued. I will ask for lots of reason.

1) To find out who you are.

2) To see if you are a FO...
(Friend Of, most counties still issue that way)

3) To see if your GC has anything to do with your occupation.

4) To see what it takes to get a ccw from your county that issued you.

5) Because a CCW is a novelty. Only 40,000 in the state. Most officers never see one.

6) To see if you pass the attitude test.

7) Peace Officers are nosy by nature.

If I ask you how long you have had your drivers lisc. are you offended?

If I ask did you go to DMV to renew it, or was it automatic, are you offended?

If I ask has it been revoked in the past, are you offended?

If I ask if this is your only DL are you offended?

If I ask have you had a DL in another state? Are you offended?

If I asked why are you driving such a expensive car, are you offended?

I have asked all these at one time or another.

We are you so sensitive about the CCW and not the CDL.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by newshooterinca

BUT ...

We are not in a shall issue state. We are in a cursed "may issue" state and the "may" means "they may take it away for any reason they see fit." So we have no choice but to play the game.

If I was an A.H. to a cop and got revoked for life I'd regret that a whole lot more than spending 5 minutes playing along and keeping my mouth shut. It sucks at the time but it's better than the alternative.

I have to respectfully disagree with the part about it taken away for "any reason they see fit". Once it's issued, they valided your good cause. Especially if your good cause has been "valided" by renewals for many years...legally, they would have to have a valid reason to override your good cause...such as a crime, illegal activity, immoral acts legal or not, drug use, improper behavior while CCW....etc.

You will not have your permit yanked because you didn't want to discuss your good cause on a traffic stop. However...if that cop complains...it will be a fictional story because complaining about your lack of interest in discussing your good cause is not good cause for a complaint...or even worth the time for normal people with a life.

Then it becomes a he said, she said...who do you believe scenario. As a civilian....you are the liar unless you can prove otherwise or get a lawyer.

[Ouroboros]

I see a middle way here. I am in full agreement with CCWI that we must comply fully with the law and with the terms of our license. That goes without saying. We also must be courteous and respectful to LEOs ALL the time, both to respect their office and because we are ambassadors for CCW.

But I don't think we are forced to kowtow to an LEO simply because we've been pulled over for speeding, be grilled on issues beyond whether our license is validly issued and where our handgun is located, or be baited into an extended back-and-forth over what our "good cause" was and whether it is sufficient enough for this particular LEO's personal judgment. Yes, we may have committed a traffic infraction, but we are not "suspects" and absent probable cause to believe a further violation of law has occurred, an LEO can and should do no more than issue a citation and send us on our way.

All this having been said, I would just reiterate that from my experience, LEOs truly appreciate whatever we can do to make them feel safer. When pulled over, I immediately turn off the engine and place the keys on the dashboard in plain sight. This reassures the LEO that I am not going to drive off or use the car as a weapon against him/her. If it is the evening or night, I turn on the dome light in the car so that the LEO can fully see me, the occupants of the vehicle and the contents. Before the LEO has even exited their car, I have retrieved my license, registration, and CCW permit from whatever pockets or consoles they were stored in. This prevents the need to rummage with my back turned to the officer while they stand at my window (a stressful point since the LEO cannot see what my hands are doing). By the time the LEO has arrived at my window, the foregoing steps have all been accomplished and I am simply sitting there, with both hands on the wheel in plain view, and one hand holding the three documents.

[DParker]

Originally Posted by newshooterinca

BUT ...

We are not in a shall issue state. We are in a cursed "may issue" state and the "may" means "they may take it away for any reason they see fit." So we have no choice but to play the game.

If I was an A.H. to a cop and got revoked for life I'd regret that a whole lot more than spending 5 minutes playing along and keeping my mouth shut. It sucks at the time but it's better than the alternative.

I fully understand the dynamic. My point is that the "may issue" authority is our Sheriff/Chief of residence, not every individual LEO.

What you are inferring is that politely and respectfully (the only way to deal with any LEO) declining to participate in street level Good Cause discussions is somehow being an "A.H." I strongly disagree. LEOs are public servants and deserve our support and respect, but they do not have carte blanche to extend their authority where it does not belong.

They have every right to my permit and my weapon. They do not have the right to challenge my good cause. Most mature adults can respond to inappropriate challenges without being an "A.H.", and I know I can.

In my mind, this is only really an issue in the parts of this state where CCWs are not issued and not welcome. And perhaps CHP. Our local cops would never over-reach in this fashion...they are glad to see "good guys" with CCWs. My concern is for the "other" areas.

[DParker]

Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I see a middle way here. I am in full agreement with CCWI that we must comply fully with the law and with the terms of our license. That goes without saying. We also must be courteous and respectful to LEOs ALL the time, both to respect their office and because we are ambassadors for CCW.

But I don't think we are forced to kowtow to an LEO simply because we've been pulled over for speeding, be grilled on issues beyond whether our license is validly issued and where our handgun is located, or be baited into an extended back-and-forth over what our "good cause" was and whether it is sufficient enough for this particular LEO's personal judgment. Yes, we may have committed a traffic infraction, but we are not "suspects" and absent probable cause to believe a further violation of law has occurred, an LEO can and should do no more than issue a citation and send us on our way.

All this having been said, I would just reiterate that from my experience, LEOs truly appreciate whatever we can do to make them feel safer. When pulled over, I immediately turn off the engine and place the keys on the dashboard in plain sight. This reassures the LEO that I am not going to drive off or use the car as a weapon against him/her. If it is the evening or night, I turn on the dome light in the car so that the LEO can fully see me, the occupants of the vehicle and the contents. Before the LEO has even exited their car, I have retrieved my license, registration, and CCW permit from whatever pockets or consoles they were stored in. This prevents the need to rummage with my back turned to the officer while they stand at my window (a stressful point since the LEO cannot see what my hands are doing). By the time the LEO has arrived at my window, the foregoing steps have all been accomplished and I am simply sitting there, with both hands on the wheel in plain view, and one hand holding the three documents.

You sir, are much more articulate than I. Very well said.