First encounter with CHP - Page 3

Hogxtz · #31 (**permalink**) 09-01-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttsail

I agree, and to add to that I keep the registration and insurance clipped to the sun visor in all my vehicles, makes it easier to keep the hands in plain view after informing.

Those of you that keep your regs clipped to the visor better not have the garage door opener anywhere in the vehilcle. You are giving away your address and a free entry into the garage, maybe house with just a quick break to the side window with a piece of broken spark plug on a wire.

Hogxtz · #32 (**permalink**) 09-01-2009, 11:36 PM

I have been watching this thread and it had me wondering, even though I was a reserve deputy once. So I have been asking every CHP officer that I have come into contact with at my place of work. I have seen a few, including the Rancho guys because they like to book up here instead of Sac. So far, every single one has said they would prefer that as they approach the vehicle that the occupants remain still, with hands on steering wheel, dash board for passengers. Keys and wallet on dashboard, windows down, dome light on if dark. Remain still and wait untill the officer contacts you and gives you directions. Generaly the first direction will be to hand the officer your DL. As you hand the officer your DL with one hand, the other hand back on the steering wheel tell the officer " SIR, I also have a CCW license and I am carrying now, how would you like me to proceed'?

They want to be told verbally right up front. They told me that they would prefer not to be handed the CCW unless they ask for later. Two guys even said they might view that as a kind of foward gesture maybe suggesting the ccw holder is special and should not receive a citation.

So.. they want to be told right up front after you have displayed that you intend to comply by handing your dl to him. The way to advise the officer right up front is by announcing your ccw license first, than that you are "carrying". DO NOT announce you have a gun first, because it will be hard to explain that you have a CCW with your face on the hot pavement.

I am getting slightly different answers from Deputies and Police from different angencies other than CHP but the they are very similiar.

I personally still beleive the best way though is to hand your ccw with your DL to the officer but with the important key of announcing as you are handing them over, " SIR, I am also required to hand you my ccw license also"( even if you really are not required too). Than just remain still and quiet waiting for instructions, questions, or directions.

OIS · #33 (**permalink**) 09-02-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quietpi

I would interpret any move toward the glove box to be furtive movement. Among other things, I would consider it sufficient PC to look in the glove box.

Any movement may be considered "furtive." Lawyers love to get you on the stand and get you to define that one.

Yes, by all means do look in the glovebox, which is, in most cases, illuminated at night.

"When I got to the vehicle, and saw the glove box open, I would immediately become curious regarding what you just took out of the glove box."

To assume one has "Just took" something from the glove box is a safe assumption but not a conclusive position. End of Comment. Sounds like a wanabe to me.

Quietpi · #34 (**permalink**) 09-02-2009, 07:09 AM

I'm not sure what happened there, OIS, but only two phrases in that which appears to be my quotation was actually my quotation.

I didn't say or imply that the open glove box was conclusive. But as you say, since glove boxes are not normally left open during operation, it is a reasonable conclusion.

True, furtive movement is something that might be attacked in court. Life is like that.

This is all in accordance with my training. I'm not a wannabe, but a has-been.

derringer · #35 (**permalink**) 09-02-2009, 11:14 AM

This glove box issue shouldn't really be a big deal. An officer would have to wonder what was taken out of the glovebox? Come on! I know a lot of people who keep their registration therein. IOW, whether it is wise or not, I doubt reaching into one's glovebox is an uncommon occurrence during a traffic stop.

**BonoVox** · #36 (**permalink**) 09-02-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogxtz

I have been watching this thread and it had me wondering, even though I was a reserve deputy once. So I have been asking every CHP officer that I have come into contact with at my place of work. I have seen a few, including the Rancho guys because they like to book up here instead of Sac. So far, every single one has said they would prefer that as they approach the vehicle that the occupants remain still, with hands on steering wheel, dash board for passengers. Keys and wallet on dashboard, windows down, dome light on if dark. Remain still and wait untill the officer contacts you and gives you directions. Generaly the first direction will be to hand the officer your DL. As you hand the officer your DL with one hand, the other hand back on the steering wheel tell the officer " SIR, I also have a CCW license and I am carrying now, how would you like me to proceed'?

They want to be told verbally right up front. They told me that they would prefer not to be handed the CCW unless they ask for later. Two guys even said they might view that as a kind of foward gesture maybe suggesting the ccw holder is special and should not receive a citation.

So.. they want to be told right up front after you have displayed that you intend to comply by handing your dl to him. The way to advise the officer right up front is by announcing your ccw license first, than that you are "carrying". DO NOT announce you have a gun first, because it will be hard to explain that you have a CCW with your face on the hot pavement.

I am getting slightly different answers from Deputies and Police from different angencies other than CHP but the they are very similiar.

I personally still beleive the best way though is to hand your ccw with your DL to the officer but with the important key of announcing as you are handing them over, " SIR, I am also required to hand you my ccw license also"( even if you really are not required too). Than just remain still and quiet waiting for instructions, questions, or directions.

I agree. Otherwise you have just told the LEO you have a gun on you and that you have a CCW. BUT does he believe you? I think in most cases all will be good. But in rare cases an jittery officer who has yet to see proof in his hands that you do indeed have a CCW could escalate things. You might not get a muzzle in your ear but you might get the "please step out of the car slowly" as he backs up with his hand on his service weapon.

So handing the CCW over to me accomplished two things. It notifies the officer of your CCW first and that you are carrying and he has immediate proof in his hands that you are legal and a good guy without having you make anymore hand movements to produce it.

mark · #37 (**permalink**) 09-02-2009, 11:52 AM

in addition to the above, what ever happened to "Hello Officer, I am on your side" then go from there,

ttsail · #38 (**permalink**) 09-02-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogxtz

Those of you that keep your regs clipped to the visor better not have the garage door opener anywhere in the vehilcle. You are giving away your address and a free entry into the garage, maybe house with just a quick break to the side window with a piece of broken spark plug on a wire.

Good point... I guess it works better from my perspective living in a rural area with no garage and 6 large dogs.

Also I do not have them clipped in plain view, I would have to pull down the visor to retrieve them, I do go to town once in a while.

Karatediver · #39 (**permalink**) 09-02-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttsail

Good point... I guess it works better from my perspective living in a rural area with no garage and 6 large dogs.

Also I do not have them clipped in plain view, I would have to pull down the visor to retrieve them, I do go to town once in a while.

Be cautious when leaving any documents or papers in your vehicle that may allow a person to steal your identity if they got a hold of it. Identity theft is a huge problem. Having your DL, registration, and insurance card all together on your sun visor would be very tempting to a thief. Due to the difficulty of trying to unwind your self from a bunch of fraud will make you wish they had taken your car instead. Throw in your social security number on some other document in your car and they have you up a creek without a paddle. It could even land you in jail should the perp decide to use your identity the next time he gets picked up for a DUI. Leaving the your California Driver's license with that other info could turn out badly.

For identity theft horror stories, check out identity theft horror stories « Identity Theft Stories

Quietpi · #40 (**permalink**) 09-02-2009, 10:12 PM

There's way too much being read into this glove box thing.

Does it happen that people get into the glove box before the officer gets to the vehicle? Of course. In my experience, it was not all that common for a person to retrieve his registration before I got to the vehicle. If it happened, I would note it, and give the situation special attention. That's way short of converting things to a felony stop. It's just good situational awareness.

The glove box is where nearly all people keep their registration. That's not unusual at all; it's how things usually work. When a person opened the glove box when I asked for his/her registration, I was watching his/her hands the entire time. It's just good situational awareness.

When I was originally trained in conducting vehicle stops, furtive movement was a major topic. The subject reaching under the seat, or to the glove box, were specifically covered as constituting furtive movement. There's always the issue of the totality of circumstances.

I think it was in my first Criminal Law class that the instructor, himself a full-time police officer or deputy sheriff - I don't remember which - said that, given anything to develop even weak probable cause, he would look under the seats and in the glove box. He noted that he might lose in court, but he would be going home at the end of his shift.

Mind you, this was long ago. I don't remember if it was before or during the Byrd court. Only you really old timers will know what that means. And I haven't done a vehicle stop in over 20 years. I remember clearly the procedures I was trained in. I do not remember what glove boxes were open or closed, only that the overwhelming majority were closed until I asked for the registration, etc. Anything that departed from the norm got some degree of special attention. It's just good situational awareness.

After I left one agency, the guy who replaced me may well have had his life spared by two things. He saw the suspect reach into the glove box, and the BG's girlfriend screamed, "NO!!!" We'll never know for sure what was going on, because the BG got away. What evidence there was, though, suggested, well, you can guess.

Now - can we get off this glove box thing?