First Traffic Stop With CCW

[coq]

CCW aside, I can't imagine any situation where it would benefit you to be rude to the cops.

[DParker]

Let me clarify. I believe in respect and good 'attitude' when dealing with LEOs. I exhibited exactly that during the stop I described. I fully understand that 'at this point in time' we are completely dependent on the 'discretion' of chief law enforcement officers to award us CCW privileges. I am not about to do anything that would jepordize my standing with my sheriff.

My comment in context was addressing the larger issue of being questioned on non-related matters in an attempt to incriminate us. Those questions didn't have anything to do with my missing front plate. He even asked 'what church?' and it was not in a conversational manner. His tone and demeanor was demanding and terse. The thought even crossed my mind: "what if he doesn't approve of my church..."

Setting the CCW issue aside, am I the only one the least bit concerned about LEOs questioning us about our comings and goings when not related to a suspected crime or investigation? I fully understand why they may try to 'fish' at every opportunity, but must we 'fish' be expected to swim up and nibble the hook?

Just my thoughts....

[Ken_In_Colo]

Originally Posted by coq

CCW aside, I can't imagine any situation where it would benefit you to be rude to the cops.

Neither can I. Even if the cop was fishing for something stronger than the missing front plate.

I've heard of persons taken in or held for Failure To Give A Good Account Of Themselves i.e. They can't explain what they're doing or why they're where they are etc. I don't think that's a crime but it makes you look suspicious in the eyes of a LEO.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Since California license plates are highly reflective, they don't really need a light to be seen. Anyway...if you're pulled over for a burned out license plate light, no front light or any petty B.S. like that, you're being stopped for other reasons. Your ccw cleared that up and he sent you on your way. Basically, the cop thought you were a bad guy. The church comment was probably an affirmation of his belief that you were a "bad guy" UNTIL you gave him your ccw.

[Mad Geek]

Dparker Stated:

Setting the CCW issue aside, am I the only one the least bit concerned about LEOs questioning us about our comings and goings when not related to a suspected crime or investigation? I fully understand why they may try to 'fish' at every opportunity, but must we 'fish' be expected to swim up and nibble the hook?

Sorry, I couldn't grab just this out of the post:

My initial thought was not that he was necessarily concerned about your comings and goings as much as wanting to engage you in conversation to get a feel for your demeanor, your attitude and state of mind. I could be wrong, but that was my interpretation based on the way you presented the events.

[DParker]

Originally Posted by Mad Geek

My initial thought was not that he was necessarily concerned about your comings and goings as much as wanting to engage you in conversation to get a feel for your demeanor, your attitude and state of mind. I could be wrong, but that was my interpretation based on the way you presented the events.

There was no conversation. He was abrupt and terse. His demeanor was demanding. After he verified me, he was then pleasant. He seemed to be young (couldn't see him since he was blinding me) and was just perhaps in 'academy mode'. Doesn't matter. It ended well. But it was clear to me that he didn't care about the front plate and was looking for a 'score'. I just wonder how much innocent citizens should have to go along with cops demanding answers to personal non-related questions. Where I was coming from, where I was going, and the name of my church had no bearing on my missing front license plate.

I answered him politely, but I think my larger question is a valid concern for a society that places high value on individual liberty.

[gr8fatman]

In the early 80's, I had a Chevy Vega with a jacked up rear end, heavy window tint, no front plate and it was loud. I was pulled over frequently. After getting another car, the traffic stops ended. I wasn't driving any better, just less conspicuous.

[PirateQueen]

Originally Posted by sealbeach

+1, about 10 years ago my wife once got a "fix it" ticket for missing a front plate, because I had never ever put the front plates on any of my vehicles--I promptly put them on, there is simply no reason to invite trouble. I think it is idiotic to require front plates, but thats the law so I put on the plates.

Lucky for me I also have no "bling" and drive older plain cars It sure must be terrible to have your bling showing!!!

Funny you should mention about ten years ago the same thing happened to me!

[derringer]

Originally Posted by DParker

Setting the CCW issue aside, am I the only one the least bit concerned about LEOs questioning us about our comings and goings when not related to a suspected crime or investigation?

No. You are not the only one having this concern. I, too, feel it is an invasion of privacy and intimidation. However, you did the right thing.

By the way, at least here in Sutter County, fix-it tickets are no longer "free". I was pulled over for the first time in over a decade, and when asked if I knew why I was being pulled over I had to honestly reply, "I have no idea." He pulled me over for a flaky brake light. I was very cordial and accomodating, but my demeanor didn't help reduce my stop to just a courtesy warning. There was a filing fee involved. Not much, but it was still a pain in the rear to get taken care of and an unplanned nip out of my meager funds.

[desertrat]

I agree that they dont have the right to know what you are doing. How would they feel if we just pulled up next to them when they are on the side of the road and started grilling them?

Will give them one thing, Fresno is a ****TY city.

[Quietpi]

Originally Posted by PirateQueen

Funny you should mention about ten years ago the same thing happened to me!

…groan…

This is getting a bit far from the "front license plate" part, but on vehicle stops, or on just about any LE contact, as the officer making the stop, you begin to be skeptical about everything you're told. People will go to ridiculous lengths to cast themselves in a favorable light, whatever they think that favorable light is in your eyes, sometimes with jaw-dropping results: "I never swear and I don't drink… Oh, &%#*@!, I must have left my driver license at the bar." Eventually you will have heard it all, and learned not to believe most of it, especially as it approaches 2:00 A.M.

I would have found it odd that somebody would have been heading home from church around midnight, and I'm a regular church goer, involved in leadership myself.

[DParker]

Originally Posted by Quietpi

I would have found it odd that somebody would have been heading home from church around midnight, and I'm a regular church goer, involved in leadership myself.

It was a little before 11:00 PM. Church ended at ~9:45 and it takes us ushers at least an hour to get our work done. My usher badge was in my shirt pocket. We are a hip 'generational' loud and wild church with services that frequently run late.

Which is all beside the point. He had no stop related reason to question where I was coming from, where I was going, and the identity of my church. There is certainly nothing stopping him from asking anything he wants in order to try to score an arrest for non stop related offenses, but when the questions are delivered in an aggressive command tone, most citizens feel compelled to answer. And politely and respectively declining to answer is perceived as 'rude' or uncooperative.

I work with a retired Fresno PD detective. In talking to him about it, he believes it was a newbie officer given his tone and time of day. He says a more experienced officer would have been more conversational simply because you get better responses than barking commands. He agrees it was a Driving While Pimped stop (thank you RomanDad!) and that it was a good thing I was polite and indulged the cops' questions given his aggressive demeanor. For what it is worth, he agrees that it isn't right to be grilled like that on a fix-it stop, but "they are trained to do just that...".

[coq]

Profiling. It's discrimination, but I'd guess a necessary tool in LE. And we probably all do it to some degree.

[Sigman]

Originally Posted by paul0660

Yup, every day I thank God I am white, old, and wouldn't know bling if it bit me.

I think Bling is when your buudy is firing his gun next to you and his ejected shell goes 'BLING' off you head

[X-ffdo]

What you saw was merely an expression of ego from probably a young cop. No more.