Knife(s) in Court House

[Tough Guy Levi]

Howdy:

It was a costly mistake! An acquaintance of mine ventured to a local court house to pay a traffic ticket. A mature General Contractor, he was displaying a Swiss Army knife on his belt when he was waved through the metal detectors. Bells, alarms sounded and a local OC Deputy Sheriff asked him to empty his pockets etc. Upon inspection, he had keys, his belted Swiss Army knife plus a watch and was told to take his Swiss Army knife back to his vehicle because it wasn't allowed in the court. He apologized for his mistake while explaining he was there to pay his first moving violation!!

After going back to his vehicle and removing the Swiss Army knife, he then proceeded to get back in line again to go through the metal detector. Only this time he had his keys and watch in hand. As he went through the metal detector, alarms and bells sounded again. He was then "wanded" by an OC Deputy Sheriff and his buckle was the culprit. When he took off the belt, it was inspected and the next thing my acqaintance knew, he was thrown up against a wall, handcuffed and arrested in a blink of an eye. His daughter-in-law "collected" him early in the am after spending an "interesting" night in jail. When arrested, he was only wearing shorts and a T-shirt. Due to the jail's efficient air conditioning unit(s), it was freezing cold in the jail and "in the know" inmates suggested he use toilet paper to wrap his exposed legs and legs for insulation purposes. I thought about asking him the name of the conditioning unit but decided against it after hearing about the use of toilet paper and his teeth chattering night!!

What my acquaintance forget to remove was his Belt Buckle knife (Bowen Knife Company) he had worn for many many years and used in his General Contracting business ie opening packages, cutting tape etc. He is a successful businessman, been in this country (from South Africa) for more than 20 years and had a spotless record.

On the day of his trial, the Virginia Tech tragic event took place! He had spent thousands of dollars on pre-trial attorney fees but because of the Virginia Tech killings, the mood of the day, he pled guilty to carrying a concealed weapon into the court house because he didn't want to take a chance to be thought of as a terrorist etc. His was fined $125 and was given 6 months informal probation. Whew he said, "he had visions of spending years in jail if he took his chances at trial".

Maybe not a rocket scientist by an means but after being warned about the Swiss Army knife, the warning should have reminded him of his belt buckle knife!! You would think so but I have the same knife, have carried it for years and boarded an airplane while wearing it. I didn't realize I had it on until I took it off, rolled it up and placed the belt perpendicular to the moving belt prior to going through the metal detector. If I acted nervous or tried to retrieve the belt while in "transit" I knew I was in trouble!! The xray machine didn't "pick" it up and when I got to my destination (whew, no stops-praying the police weren't waiting upon arrival) I immediately took the belt off and sent it via UPS to my office. I was happy to purchase a replacement belt during the rest of my trip!!

I don't wear the Bowen Belt buckle anymore since I have my CCW (OCSD issue) plus I don't want to experience the toilet mummy wrap in the OC jail system!

Tough Guy Levi
SASS# 61430L
NRA Pistol/Personal Defense Instructor

[More Cowbell]

This is a good reminder. Always know what you are carrying.

[WKC]

From the CPC:

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the
state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives,
lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable
firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a
firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which
contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or
carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst
trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any
short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any
leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol,
any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge
knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice
handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon
of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy,
sandclub, sap, or sandbag.

Belt buckle knife is illegal, period.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by WKC

From the CPC:
Belt buckle knife is illegal, period.

Yea... it's illegal...because we all know how dangerous those pesky belt buckle knives are. With the rash of killings worldwide and evil-wrongdoers wondering the streets with those belt buckles....we have to insure the safety of the children.

Same goes for those felony lipstick and pen knives. EVIL EVIL weapons of distruction!

And don't get me started on throwing stars! Since the martial arts movies of the 80's...everyone knows if you throw one...someone's gonna take it in the forehead.

Those laws totally ruined my chances of becoming a Ninja...and that just sucks.

[K-dog.v3]

I have no simpathy for him.

[BexSoCal]

I carry a holster bag and one day recently I had to go to Court. I unloaded my gun and locked it up in my vehicle according to the law when, for some unknown reason I reached back into the holster portion of my purse to find a single cartridge.

I can't stop wondering what would have happened when they saw that single bullet on the x-ray machine. It would have been an innocent and unintentional mistake, but would a big stink have been made about it?

As a result I double check everything for a pocket knife I use at work, a loose cartridge, a forgotten speed loader, a camera phone or any other innocent item that will literally set off Bells & Whistles.

Yeah, I got a thing for Cops but that's not the way I wanna meet them.

[IAmASensFan]

Ok...I'm not experienced with these kinds of knives, so can someone clear up a question?

This guy wears this knife to open boxes and cut tape in his contracting business?

If I had to take off my belt every time a box came into my office, I'd be arrested for sexual harassment or something. Maybe I'm not understanding how the knife works, but it sure sounds like a drowning man grasping at anything he can grab onto for an excuse!

I suppose I better get rid of the Shuriken that I use to open up those Dell boxes.

[sealbeach]

He got a warning about the decoy swiss army knife, and still "forgot" the belt knife. If he forgot he had the knife, it would have been fairly useless in a crisis anyway, since he would have forgotten he had it. Why carry a self defense weapon if you dont plan on using it, and forget you even carry it?!

[Tough Guy Levi]

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

Ok...I'm not experienced with these kinds of knives, so can someone clear up a question?

This guy wears this knife to open boxes and cut tape in his contracting business?

If I had to take off my belt every time a box came into my office, I'd be arrested for sexual harassment or something. Maybe I'm not understanding how the knife works, but it sure sounds like a drowning man grasping at anything he can grab onto for an excuse!

I suppose I better get rid of the Shuriken that I use to open up those Dell boxes.

Howdy SealBeach:

When I've seen my acquaintance, he was carrying his Swiss Army Knife but he told me if he forgot the SAK, he would use his belt buckle knife. Since I have the same Bowen Knife Company buckle, one does tend to forget about it but I'm sure in a "situation", one would quickly remember it's there. Ignorance is 9/10ths of the law and for years I didn't know the Bowen Buckle knife was illegal in CA. The knife is easy to get to in an emergency and one doesn't have to remove the belt to use the knife (IAmASensFan post). Only the buckle needs to be removed!! I have a CA CCW and don't leave home without one of my carry weapons.

Tough Guy Levi
SASS# 61430L
NRA Pistol/Per.Def. Inst.

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by Tough Guy Levi

Howdy SealBeach:

When I've seen my acquaintance, he was carrying his Swiss Army Knife but he told me if he forgot the SAK, he would use his belt buckle knife. Since I have the same Bowen Knife Company buckle, one does tend to forget about it but I'm sure in a "situation", one would quickly remember it's there. Ignorance is 9/10ths of the law and for years I didn't know the Bowen Buckle knife was illegal in CA. The knife is easy to get to in an emergency and one doesn't have to remove the belt to use the knife (IAmASensFan post). Only the buckle needs to be removed!! I have a CA CCW and don't leave home without one of my carry weapons.

Tough Guy Levi
SASS# 61430L
NRA Pistol/Per.Def. Inst.

Thanks for clearing that up.

From the picture of the knife, it looks like it is the belt buckle, so removing the knife would, logically, make my pants fall down.

I'd hate to be cited for "brandishing"

[TaxMan]

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

Thanks for clearing that up.

From the picture of the knife, it looks like it is the belt buckle, so removing the knife would, logically, make my pants fall down.

I'd hate to be cited for "brandishing"

Or indecent exposure!

[mw8385]

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

Thanks for clearing that up.

From the picture of the knife, it looks like it is the belt buckle, so removing the knife would, logically, make my pants fall down.

I'd hate to be cited for "brandishing"

Just spit my soda all over my monitor after reading that!!

[Rob P.]

Originally Posted by BexSoCal

I carry a holster bag and one day recently I had to go to Court. I unloaded my gun and locked it up in my vehicle according to the law when, for some unknown reason I reached back into the holster portion of my purse to find a single cartridge.

I can't stop wondering what would have happened when they saw that single bullet on the x-ray machine. It would have been an innocent and unintentional mistake, but would a big stink have been made about it?

As a result I double check everything for a pocket knife I use at work, a loose cartridge, a forgotten speed loader, a camera phone or any other innocent item that will literally set off Bells & Whistles.

Yeah, I got a thing for Cops but that's not the way I wanna meet them.

Because I go there so often I have a completely different wardrobe for when I have to go into the courthouse. I do not EVER carry anything "concealable" in that wardrobe. No knives, no guns, no bullets, nada. My belt buckle is leather wrapped plastic and I remove all keys, change, wallet, glasses, etc from my pockets prior to being scanned.

What's interesting is that I ALWAYS get the machine to go off when I step though. I have no metal on me except the metal arch supports built into my boots but...... Every time!

Maybe it's my fillings?

In any event, I've gotten to the point where I don't want to go to the courthouse. And in my line of work that's saying something. For those who don't have to be there but once in awhile, don't carry your normal daily stuff. Use a small clutch purse or just carry your checkbook/ID by itself. Leave EVERYTHING else at home or in the car (I personally wouldn't do this but...).

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by Rob P.

Because I go there so often I have a completely different wardrobe for when I have to go into the courthouse. I do not EVER carry anything "concealable" in that wardrobe. No knives, no guns, no bullets, nada. My belt buckle is leather wrapped plastic and I remove all keys, change, wallet, glasses, etc from my pockets prior to being scanned.

What's interesting is that I ALWAYS get the machine to go off when I step though. I have no metal on me except the metal arch supports built into my boots but...... Every time!

Maybe it's my fillings?

In any event, I've gotten to the point where I don't want to go to the courthouse. And in my line of work that's saying something. For those who don't have to be there but once in awhile, don't carry your normal daily stuff. Use a small clutch purse or just carry your checkbook/ID by itself. Leave EVERYTHING else at home or in the car (I personally wouldn't do this but...).

The metal supports in boots and shoes will set it off everytime.

[Rob P.]

Then what's the point? The scan is supposed to be for concealed WEAPONS not arch supports. If it beeps for the normal metal supports in people's shoes and everyone has to be hand wanded/searched then it's not an "unobtrusive" scan but instead is a mandatory precursor to a more invasive warrantless frisk. If the machines are deliberately set to this level for this reason, then this violates our 4th amendment rights.