Knife(s) in Court House

[45 ACP]

Originally Posted by Rob P.

Then what's the point? The scan is supposed to be for concealed WEAPONS not arch supports. If it beeps for the normal metal supports in people's shoes and everyone has to be hand wanded/searched then it's not an "unobtrusive" scan but instead is a mandatory precursor to a more invasive warrantless frisk. If the machines are deliberately set to this level for this reason, then this violates our 4th amendment rights.

A magnetometer cannot be set to simply scan "down" to the level of a person's foot, but no further. It does not scan for concealed weapons, it scans for large concentrations of ferrous material, which is what most weapons are constructed out of. It just so happens to be that belt buckles, arch inserts, shoe shanks, and even boots with large numbers of lace grommets have the same amount of material necessary to "trigger" an alert.

It can be shown that a weapon can be concealed within the soles of a person's hollowed out shoe. A weapon can even be concealed beneath the person's foot, which is in the same area as the normal metal support.

Furthermore, if the person is wearing a shoe that does NOT contain metal inserts, then the machine will not alert to this factor, thereby negating any argument as to any "precursor."

[BonoVox]

Yep for that reason I used to fly with only rubber soled shoes whenever possible. If not, I voluntarily took them off to be xrayed so I would not have to go through secondary wanding. But now you have to take shoes off regardless.

Funny thing is my Submariner watch that is big and bulky metal never sets off airport detectors, but it did set off the detector at the US Capitol last week.

[tango-52]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

Funny thing is my Submariner watch that is big and bulky metal never sets off airport detectors, but it did set off the detector at the US Capitol last week.

Your watch was probably stainless steel, aluminum or titanium - non-ferrous from a magnetic point of view.

[Rob P.]

Originally Posted by 45 ACP

A magnetometer cannot be set to simply scan "down" to the level of a person's foot, but no further. It does not scan for concealed weapons, it scans for large concentrations of ferrous material, which is what most weapons are constructed out of. It just so happens to be that belt buckles, arch inserts, shoe shanks, and even boots with large numbers of lace grommets have the same amount of material necessary to "trigger" an alert.

It can be shown that a weapon can be concealed within the soles of a person's hollowed out shoe. A weapon can even be concealed beneath the person's foot, which is in the same area as the normal metal support.

Furthermore, if the person is wearing a shoe that does NOT contain metal inserts, then the machine will not alert to this factor, thereby negating any argument as to any "precursor."

So, what you're really saying is that the machine is set to a sensitivity level which will "alert" to normal everyday wearing apparel? Things like shoelace eyelets, bra hooks, metal shirt buttons, Vote for Arnold politcal stickpins, and wedding rings?

If so then it isn't a "random and unobtrusive" scan now is it because it will alert to EVERYONE regardless of what they wear. In simplier terms, it becomes a means by which the State can invasively search everyone on the pretext that they "alerted" on the machine. In effect this is an end run around our 4th amendment protections in the name of "security".

BTW, the machine can't scan for and/or alert to the most pervasive and deadliest weapon on the planet. This weapon is concealed, undetectable and indistinguishable from the ordinary but it is THE most deadly thing ever created. Which sort of makes a metal detector at the door irrelevant.

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by Rob P.

So, what you're really saying is that the machine is set to a sensitivity level which will "alert" to normal everyday wearing apparel? Things like shoelace eyelets, bra hooks, metal shirt buttons, Vote for Arnold politcal stickpins, and wedding rings?

If so then it isn't a "random and unobtrusive" scan now is it because it will alert to EVERYONE regardless of what they wear. In simplier terms, it becomes a means by which the State can invasively search everyone on the pretext that they "alerted" on the machine. In effect this is an end run around our 4th amendment protections in the name of "security".

BTW, the machine can't scan for and/or alert to the most pervasive and deadliest weapon on the planet. This weapon is concealed, undetectable and indistinguishable from the ordinary but it is THE most deadly thing ever created. Which sort of makes a metal detector at the door irrelevant.

Wrong forum my friend. We don't even dive that deep into the 2nd amendment here "IMO". The 4th is getting out there. There are PLENTY of specific forums out there to air your 4th amendment grievances in and rightfully so!!

CalCCW is here to assist people in getting their CalCCW.

[Rob P.]

My apologies.

[Hoser]

Originally Posted by BonoVox

Wrong forum my friend. We don't even dive that deep into the 2nd amendment here "IMO". The 4th is getting out there. There are PLENTY of specific forums out there to air your 4th amendment grievances in and rightfully so!!

CalCCW is here to assist people in getting their CalCCW.

Well put.

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by Rob P.

So, what you're really saying is that the machine is set to a sensitivity level which will "alert" to normal everyday wearing apparel? Things like shoelace eyelets, bra hooks, metal shirt buttons, Vote for Arnold politcal stickpins, and wedding rings?

If so then it isn't a "random and unobtrusive" scan now is it because it will alert to EVERYONE regardless of what they wear. In simplier terms, it becomes a means by which the State can invasively search everyone on the pretext that they "alerted" on the machine. In effect this is an end run around our 4th amendment protections in the name of "security".

BTW, the machine can't scan for and/or alert to the most pervasive and deadliest weapon on the planet. This weapon is concealed, undetectable and indistinguishable from the ordinary but it is THE most deadly thing ever created. Which sort of makes a metal detector at the door irrelevant.

Rob

This is probably a reason why some legally armed people are able to carry into venues such as the Honda Center (despite its not being permitted by ANYONE) and not raise suspicion or be challenged...These things sound off so frequently for the slightest thing that the people who are wanding get complacent.

You have to look at the big picture...and yes, the metal detector DOES become irrelevant, especially if you seek out the meekest looking (posture, carriage, non-verbals, etc) person with a wand, and you have some sort of "command presence".

I have NO faith in (and I am sorry if I offend anyone) $10/hour guards and TSA agents to keep me safe.