Deadly Force Alternative?

[ranger2/75]

Deriuously though we all know that there are times when Deadly force is not justifiable. So here is my questino; something that has rolled around inside my head for a while, does anybody have any experiance with the Kimber Life Act? I knoew they have two different models now and I am concidering purchasing one for my wife and (adault) daughter. I even thought that I may get one for a first step in my defensive plan. I have had to shoot people in the service and it is not something that I ever want to do again. I do not believe that I would hesitate if needed however I just dont need a nother face to fall asleep with at night.

Thanks for the input.

[AMS MIKE]

Kimber Life Act Guardian Angel is a great self-defense for men/women/mature children to keep on them in case a situation arises where they are in need to defend oneself.

I do not have one but I have certainly recommended them to many people who cannot ccw.

[ttsail]

Looks like a great non lethal alternative, I just ordered one for my wife.

[tango-52]

My wife and I each have one for when we are out and about. They fit in the pocket nicely and are simple to use. Although I would prefer to carry one of my other Kimbers, this will have to do for now.

[El Gato]

The kimber product seems to carry well... people have been leaving me alone lately so I haven't actually used it on anyone....my daughters boyfriend left it in his car and his dad pulled the trigger...causing stench in the suburban...he is now her ex-boyfriend....

Then there is the Taser baby!
http://www.taser.com/products/consum...2.aspx:banana:

Fun times on the old electric wire!

[OCCCW]

Kimnber Life act is better than nothing, we got em for the females in the family for every day carry since hey wont CCW. I do remember seeing TV clips with guys taking pepper shots to the face that were on crack with seemingly little affect. For me, I am confident I would hit the deck.......fast.

CCWinstructor wont let you open the box in his office, so, they must be dangerous.

[JandJDude]

Originally Posted by OCCCW

CCWinstructor wont let you open the box in his office, so, they must be dangerous.

I'm sure part of that is due to the nature of the spray itself. If it is accidentally discharged, it can linger around for a while and make the room basically unusable for a while. Not that I would know.

They are great little things too. I would suggest them to anyone who didn't want to carry a gun, knife or anything else that's potentially lethal.

[Nightingale]

I'd be worried if, when carrying both a pepper spray device and a gun, I used the gun because I felt my life was in danger and felt the pepper spray wasn't a good option (wrong wind direction, etc...). A prosecutor would be all over that, because I obviously had another, less lethal option, and used lethal force instead.

[ranger2/75]

All good points.
Nightingale, I had not ran that direction in my thought process great point, and taken.
Thanks

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by Nightingale

I'd be worried if, when carrying both a pepper spray device and a gun, I used the gun because I felt my life was in danger and felt the pepper spray wasn't a good option (wrong wind direction, etc...). A prosecutor would be all over that, because I obviously had another, less lethal option, and used lethal force instead.

Hmm. I've been told by some firearms instructors that if you carry pepper spray along with your CCW, it can actually help to prove your case that you were in fear for your life, and that you honestly believed that the use of deadly force was your only option. Even if you don't use it, it can show that you considered other options, but ruled them out as not being sufficient to stop the threat.

Any thoughts?

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by Nightingale

I'd be worried if, when carrying both a pepper spray device and a gun, I used the gun because I felt my life was in danger and felt the pepper spray wasn't a good option (wrong wind direction, etc...). A prosecutor would be all over that, because I obviously had another, less lethal option, and used lethal force instead.

Some argue that point...others (like me) have a different opinion and experience with and about pepper spray.

Fear of a hypothetic Nifong is silly. A prosecutor would be rebutted by your lawyer if it got there. It would be explained. Your reasons would be articulated.

Ultimately it's a personal choice. I've had to use it while CCW.

[Nightingale]

I'd rather the situation not get to the point where I need a defense attorney. I've seen prosecutors run amok with baseless or very questionable charges, mainly to try to get a plea. Also, I'd be really concerned about a civil suit, because the burden of proof is so much less, especially if you didn't try the pepper spray first. Personally, I'll carry one or the other.

Another concern with pepper spray is that people forget to carry it like they carry their gun, and practice with it. All too often, it gets lost in the bottom of a purse and isn't within reach when it's needed.

[EM2]

Originally Posted by The Gimper

Hmm. I've been told by some firearms instructors that if you carry pepper spray along with your CCW, it can actually help to prove your case that you were in fear for your life, and that you honestly believed that the use of deadly force was your only option. Even if you don't use it, it can show that you considered other options, but ruled them out as not being sufficient to stop the threat.

Any thoughts?

Precisely what my CCW instructor told us. Since he is a lawyer specializing in firearms law by trade I would tend to take his recommendation seriously. I now carry pepper spray and a flash light with my CCW firearm.

[El Gato]

We always recomend the pepper be carried... I can then tell the LAW that I considered using pepper spray but there was ..... no time...it was inappropriate....etc...

We like the kimber and the ASP Key defender... when it is empty it is still a kubaton (spelling)...and it can be reloaded when used. In the hand, looks like a mag light or something innocent... it attaches to the key-ring and is handy... works great for guys who wear jeans as it will fit in the pocket next tothe wallet and is inconspicuous... I carry it in my waistband under the belt and it is reall handy and I forget I am carrying it... If I ever lose my "winter coat".. that might change.

ASP Key Defender Pepper Spray

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Originally Posted by Nightingale

I'd rather the situation not get to the point where I need a defense attorney. I've seen prosecutors run amok with baseless or very questionable charges, mainly to try to get a plea. Also, I'd be really concerned about a civil suit, because the burden of proof is so much less, especially if you didn't try the pepper spray first. Personally, I'll carry one or the other.

Another concern with pepper spray is that people forget to carry it like they carry their gun, and practice with it. All too often, it gets lost in the bottom of a purse and isn't within reach when it's needed.

I don't think you are getting my point or the point of the others who have weighed in, ma'am.

It's actually, quite the opposite in reality. In my opinion, pepper spray shows you are concerned with non-lethal alternatives as an option and have taken action on these concerns.

Just because it didn't work out or wasn't an option against an attacker in a deadly force scenario, doesn't mean it's baggage, invalid, a question of morality or judgment - or a prosecutorial weapon against you.

Wrongful death is also, not a slam dunk - just by the sheer presence of non-lethal alternatives which weren't viable at the time of said death of scum bag.

Good luck with whatever you do.