Hi-cap mags in your new carry O.K.?

[Crosley]

Hi.

My first thread here, looking for an answer. I have spoke to my Sheriff, a lawyer and others, and get different answers.

Assume I own magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds and I owned them prior to the 2000 ban. However, those mags were used with my old Glock.

O.K., now assume I purchased a new Glock of the exact same make/model and that is now my main carry weapon.

Here's the question... Can I legally carry my new Glock with my old Glock hi-cap magazines in it? Sheriff says O.K. Lawyer says NO! Who is correct? Anyone with some experience would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Cros.

[tango-52]

With the given assumption (legal ownership), you are fine. Especially if the Sheriff says it is okay. The question is about the legality of the magazine, not the gun. If your new weapon will take the old magazines, you are good to go. Is the attorney that advised you a firearms attorney? I'm guessing probably not.

[sealbeach]

On the other hand, why ask your lawyer if you are going to ignore his advice? Is that the guy you would call if you got arrested in a different county? Are the few extra bullets really worth the trouble in your daily carry gun?

I am usually overly cautious, and the hysteria about hi-cap mags is enough to give me heartburn: it's a stupid law, but I certainly don't want to be the "test case" or even the "arrested then released with no charges filed" guy.

[BonoVox]

When I first went to have my handguns inspected here in Orange County I had a 92FS that I bought back in 89. All I had were the high caps it came with. I brought the original receipt with me just in case. Never was brought up at all.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by Crosley

Hi.

My first thread here, looking for an answer. I have spoke to my Sheriff, a lawyer and others, and get different answers.

This is your Lawyers logic. You use high cap mags purchased in 1999. You insert them in a gun purchased in 2001 or later. How does that look to a jury?

Legal yes, however their perception is their reality (jury) it's going to look bad. You bought a gun that was delivered with 10 round mags. Instead on using those, you use high caps that were not legal when you purchased the gun.

Do you see where I going with this?

[James]

If the attorney is not a general practice attorney and specializes in firearms, i would trust the attorney's advice. When i say specilize, i mean that his primary focus is in firearms. He doesn't practice corporate law, patent law, dui, etc. Everyday, he goes to work, he lives and breathes firearm related legal questions, then the attorney will most likely be correct.

[Norseman]

Greg's advice is spot-on as usual. I am in the same boat as you. Here's what I did, on the advice of my lawyer, who is a gun nut like me. I saw the law coming. I legally purchased hi-cap mags for several pistols. There are no serial numbers on magazines. I purchased one of those "P-Touch" lable makers. I printed the following labels: "Purchased pre-ban prior to 01-01-00 12020(a)(23) P.C." I affixed this label to the back side of each of my hi-cap magazines.

I figure it's a cheap insurance policy incase some razor beak at the range wants to engage me in a legal conversation. I plan to just show him the back of one of my mags, and keep firing.

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

This is your Lawyers logic. You use high cap mags purchased in 1999. You insert them in a gun purchased in 2001 or later. How does that look to a jury?

Legal yes, however their perception is their reality (jury) it's going to look bad. You bought a gun that was delivered with 10 round mags. Instead on using those, you use high caps that were not legal when you purchased the gun.

Do you see where I going with this?

Originally Posted by James

If the attorney is not a general practice attorney and specializes in firearms, i would trust the attorney's advice. When i say specilize, i mean that his primary focus is in firearms. He doesn't practice corporate law, patent law, dui, etc. Everyday, he goes to work, he lives and breathes firearm related legal questions, then the attorney will most likely be correct.

But even if he is not a firearms lawyer, if he is a trial lawyer he knows how juries think and Greg's advice above still applies as it deals with the appearance to a jury. It may be legal, but to a jury it will appear bad.

Originally Posted by Norseman

Greg's advice is spot-on as usual. I am in the same boat as you. Here's what I did, on the advice of my lawyer, who is a gun nut like me. I saw the law coming. I legally purchased hi-cap mags for several pistols. There are no serial numbers on magazines. I purchased one of those "P-Touch" lable makers. I printed the following labels: "Purchased pre-ban prior to 01-01-00 12020(a)(23) P.C." I affixed this label to the back side of each of my hi-cap magazines.

I figure it's a cheap insurance policy incase some razor beak at the range wants to engage me in a legal conversation. I plan to just show him the back of one of my mags, and keep firing.

Hey Norseman, good to see you around again. I know you know that, while it may help you with the razor beak at the range, as per the above, Greg's advice still applies when it comes to a jury.

[Crosley]

Originally Posted by sealbeach

On the other hand, why ask your lawyer if you are going to ignore his advice? Is that the guy you would call if you got arrested in a different county? Are the few extra bullets really worth the trouble in your daily carry gun?

I am usually overly cautious, and the hysteria about hi-cap mags is enough to give me heartburn: it's a stupid law, but I certainly don't want to be the "test case" or even the "arrested then released with no charges filed" guy.

Some clarification is obviously needed.

The lawyer is a friend. He works for the county. He is not a firearms attorney, he is a general shark. But a smart one! If I were arrested, I would not call him, except to give him a chuckle because he makes fun of me for being to 'clean cut'.

Yes, the few extra rounds are worth it. Carrying spare magazines can be troublesome in the summer. I am sorta slender and too much stuff around the waste sticks out too much.

I am overly cautious too, that is why I am seeking comments that I can take to the Sheriff next time and go on record as researching this, just in case.

[Crosley]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

This is your Lawyers logic. You use high cap mags purchased in 1999. You insert them in a gun purchased in 2001 or later. How does that look to a jury?

Legal yes, however their perception is their reality (jury) it's going to look bad. You bought a gun that was delivered with 10 round mags. Instead on using those, you use high caps that were not legal when you purchased the gun.

Do you see where I going with this?

Yes, I do! Thank you very much for your explanation!

[VanLogan]

Originally Posted by Crosley

Yes, I do! Thank you very much for your explanation!

I know a civil attorney that told me this:

The legal liability is not the issue. The civil liability is where you will get into trouble. He said he would exploit any and all things that he could when he is suing you for the family of gangbanger you shot. He said he looks at the ammo you used, the sights, the magazines, the modifications and accessories to show you are a gun toting vigilante out looking to kill people.

He advised only carrying in a current legal configuration. He said dont even change the sights. He explained that he made a guy look like a killer because he used black talon ammo. He suggested that you use winchester ranger, lol. I know it is the same.

~VL

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by VanLogan

I know a civil attorney that told me this:

The legal liability is not the issue. The civil liability is where you will get into trouble. He said he would exploit any and all things that he could when he is suing you for the family of gangbanger you shot. He said he looks at the ammo you used, the sights, the magazines, the modifications and accessories to show you are a gun toting vigilante out looking to kill people.

He advised only carrying in a current legal configuration. He said dont even change the sights. He explained that he made a guy look like a killer because he used black talon ammo. He suggested that you use winchester ranger, lol. I know it is the same.

~VL

Actually Winchester Ranger is even better and going to get even more better soon!

[1buba]

There was a case in P-Ville where a fireman was proned out on Hwy 50 because of an EMPTY Hi-cap mag in his armrest. He was legal CCW and the mag was legal also. There were two agencies involved, CHP and P-ville PD. I can't remember who the idiot was in this, but it was indeed lucky for the fireman that the other happened by to explain things.

This is the problem with several of the laws - the other biggy is how to "transport" a handgun. There is a LOT of misunderstanding and misinformation out that about this - I play it conservative, mags and ammo separate... For someone that CCW's, it seems like the areas where even the rank and file LEO's may disagree should be things we stay away from. JUST to protect that wonderful piece of paper we carry.

[packnrat]

living here in the state of low cap mags.

just have 2 or 3 spares close at hand that is 20 to 30 extra rounds.

i colleced mags at one time, now it is a allmost impossable to do.

but i would like to get ahold of one of the "factory" 10 round mag big 5 sells with there junk .30 carbines, but i will not pay $1,000.00 for it.

[El Gato]

If you own the magazines legally ... you own the magazines legally...end of discussion.. the mag ban speciffically states what it specifically states..... so you wore out the old gun and had to buy a new one but the old mags. were still good... or something...right?... or your new tupperware has a light rail so you can put a light on it and actually shoot the bad guy and make sure you aren't shooting some innocent person and the old gun had no light rail...

If you have to shoot someone, and it is with a hi-cap in the gun... and they make an issue of it in the civil/criminal trial... it is your attorney's jury to educate the jury that the mag. is legally owned, it cannot as a function of law be sold (the local judge says the mag. cannot even be destroyed by you or thrown in the trash it has to be transferred via a hi-cap mag dealer.. go figure)...

Your attorney then would present evidence that all of the local PD's... Sheriffs in the freaking state issue hi-caps and most of them are glocks... and present evidence that they consider if foolish to only carry ten when they could carry... whatever....the attorney could quote various trainers etc. who are certified experts in the field that there is no such thing as too much ammo in a gunfight... and that if you were looking for trouble you would have brought a .... lets hear it... come on now... that's it a FREAKING RIFLE WITH A LOAD OF MAGAZINES.....!

I have personally arrested a certified bad guy... Nazi Low Rider..who was in possession of a kel-tec 5.56 and a 30 round magazine .... loaded and 400+ rounds of 5.56... I got the charges for the gun and the ammo and his admission of how he acquired the 30 round magazine.. in violation of the mag ban...they refused to go forward on the mag. ban as the law is so poorly written.... and this is KERN COUNTY WE PROSECUTE EVERYONE....!

Thank you... I feel much better now

In the southern valley... carry your hi-caps with joy and happiness...