Important Recal

[IAmASensFan]

http://dealers.blackhawk.com/images/...call122007.pdf

Updated Safety Recall Notice - Issued 07dec07

Please note that the Updated Safety Recall Notice linked below and issued on 07dec07 for certain "High Wall" versions of both the Blackhawk Carbon Fiber SERPA and the Blackhawk Sportster holsters, supersedes all previously released notices about this recall (only).

The linked update adds two additional Component Part Numbers (C1215-S and C1215-L-S) to the two (C1215 and C1215-L) that were contained in the preceding notice(s).

Please read and follow the Notice linked below to determine if your holster is among the limited group affected by this recall.


Blackhawk Products Group is announcing a safety recall that applies to the "High Wall" versions of Blackhawk's Carbon Fiber SERPA Holsters and Blackhawk Sportster Holsters intended to fit only Glock Models 20 and 21 and the Smith & Wesson M&P in any caliber or configuration that are marked: "Glock 20/21"; "Glock 20/21 S&W M&P; or "Glock 20/21 S&W M&P .45". These holsters also have the Component Part Number C1215, C1215-L, C1215-S, or C1215-L-S molded into the bottom of the rear wall of the holster body.

As a result of a single incident, it has been determined that employing certain movements when attempting to place the Smith and Wesson M&P Pistol (in any caliber or configuration) into these "High Wall" holsters can cause the handgun to engage that "High Wall" and unexpectedly discharge if there is a round in the chamber and the trigger is in what Smith & Wesson calls "the striker fire action mode". A discharge or "firing" of the weapon in this manner could cause property damage or personal injury or death to the user and/or others.

Regardless of what firearm you are using with the holster, you should immediately determine if your holster is included in the two groups of holsters affected by this recall as described in the actual Notice linked below. If it is, you must stop using it and return it to Blackhawk Products Group by following the procedure contained in the linked Notice.

Important - Read Notice Linked Belw - Important
Updated Safety Recall 12-7-07

[X-ffdo]

Another guy took one in the leg? It usually takes someone within a dept. so that it creates enough ripples to get a recall.

[WKC]

I spent two days last week in a product liability seminar. With what I learned, I wonder why anyone would want to make anything for anybody! The manufacturer can be held liable for any injuries that is the result of a reasonably foreseeable use or mis-use of a product! So even if it was just one case, Blackhawk is smart to issue a recall to limit their exposure.

[CCWInstructor]

"Glock 20/21"; "Glock 20/21 S&W M&P; or "Glock 20/21 S&W M&P .45".

Interesting only the high wall's that except guns with no safeties are being recalled. What does this mean?

[X-ffdo]

Something is depressing the trigger....or someone!
They don't use the Italian horn method !

[WKC]

Most of us are trained to place our trigger finger on the frame of the gun above the trigger when we are done shooting and that is where the finger is normally positioned when we holster the gun. This finger position leaves the trigger exposed to any object to get caught in front of it. This could be something hanging off a jacket or a part of the holster. And because of our adherence to training, we cannot detect this condition since are trigger finger is resting on the frame of the gun as we are taught.

Now throw in no manual safety to lock the action and a 4-6 pound pull with ~ 0.3 inch of trigger travel and you have an AD. It is an AD since the operator did nothing wrong. He is doing as he is trained to do. He is simply being set up by the combination of the design of the gun and, in this case, the holster.

[X-ffdo]

What is....simply is!
A Zen koan.....".Have you heard the sound of one hand clapping?.........."
They may stop issuing those certain kinds of holsters, actually this is not the first time. I don't think I will witness governmental agencies and PD. departments going back to issuing weapons with a manual safety.
I truly do not think so.
That!.....is what is.

[spc]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

"Glock 20/21"; "Glock 20/21 S&W M&P; or "Glock 20/21 S&W M&P .45".

Interesting only the high wall's that except guns with no safeties are being recalled. What does this mean?

It means those of us with O frames are good to go and should not be confused by those tupperware lovers.

I know the final safety is between our ears, but being human and having a back-up safety is a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Mechanical things do fail,,,, but so do humans.

spc

[WKC]

The issue in this case is the inherent susceptibility of the Glock type weapon system to what I would call foreign object induced discharge. It is not a mechanical failure of the weapon system. I would also resist placing the fault on the operator. The operator is doing exactly what he was trained to do with the weapon. His finger is on the frame of the gun and away from the trigger just as he is trained to do. It is the engineering that failed him.

So what possible mitigating action can be taken to reduce the likelihood of an AD. Do we want him to sweep his trigger finger adjacent to the trigger guard to make sure no foreign object can get caught in the trigger guard? This may work for objects that may be hanging off the jacket but it would not help with the current situation with the Blackhawk holsters. More importantly, do we want to reverse our training and tell the operators to put their trigger finger where we have always stress it should not be while holstering?

Consideration for corrective action should always begin with looking at ways to redesign the system to avoid the hazard. Changing the method of operation should be the last choice.

I don't see Glock making any changes to their design any time soon. I do applaud Blackhawk for stepping up with a recall. It was the right thing to do.

[Hoser]

Originally Posted by WKC

I don't see Glock making any changes to their design any time soon. I do applaud Blackhawk for stepping up with a recall. It was the right thing to do.

As a result of a single incident, it has been determined that employing certain movements when attempting to place the Smith and Wesson M&P Pistol (in any caliber or configuration) into these "High Wall" holsters can cause the handgun to engage that "High Wall" and unexpectedly discharge if there is a round in the chamber and the trigger is in what Smith & Wesson calls "the striker fire action mode". A discharge or "firing" of the weapon in this manner could cause property damage or personal injury or death to the user and/or others.

Well, in the above case it was a Smith and Wesson M&P. At least it's not always Glock.

[WKC]

Originally Posted by Hoser

Well, in the above case it was a Smith and Wesson M&P. At least it's not always Glock.

Stand corrected. In this particular case, it was not a Glock that brought the issue to Blackhawk's attention. The problem is with the Glock type striker fired pistols. It's just a matter of time if Blackhawk did not issue the notice and recall.

Let see if S&W will do anything about this. Will they be more responsive and responsible than Glock?

[rundmlee]

Since I use a Glock and I am very aware of the ostensibly flawed saftey design of Glocks, I probably look overly cautious (compared to others with an explicit manual safety mechanism) when reholstering, very slow and careful, making sure my holster is clear of any loose clothing or anything that could snag the trigger.

[X-ffdo]

Every system has components. Some components may demand a specific set of adaptive behavior pattern to be operated within its safety profile. Every system has strong and weak points. Know your operational limitations and your system propensities. Be aware! That goes for cars, boats, airplanes, anything mechanical. That is why we have recurrent training.
Like Callahan said " A man has to know his limitations"
O frames have been cocked and locked and even dropped from helicopters, to be found on the ground still cocked and locked. They pass the test. having said that, there have been cases of people forgetting to take the safety off when faced with a stressful situation, under duress and running into a momentary disadvantage in front of the bad guy. Also accidental discharges due to having their fingers on the trigger, safety off, an tightening their grip under stress and causing accidental discharges, due to the single action trigger short travel. That has been documented as well. Striker fired weapons will do this as well even if their triggers are of a longer travel.
Now I reserve the right to use whatever suits me and I hope the rest of the gang will do the same, as long as I demonstrate a safe and respectful behavior when operating the weapon of particular choice for that day. I may shoot an O frame today, a Glock tomorrow, if you depress the trigger, it is supposed to go bang! This is a tired old subject, guys! Broken record!
BYE!