Dillon 650 press

[1buba]

Originally Posted by crocoscottie

I don't know nothin' about Glock .45 barrels (my Glocks are .40 Short & Weak), but I have compared Glock factory barrels against Bar-Stos. With the barrels removed, I have held them chamber side up and dropped in a factory round. The cartridge in the factory barrel rattles around quite freely, the one in the Bar-Sto is noticeably tighter. You can also quite plainly see the non-supported area of the factory barrel.

This DOES matter, but probably not in the way we expect, nor to any serious extent in handguns (I'm talking about normal numbers of reloads on the brass - for the handgun stuff, unless i'm shooting light 3 gun type loads, i try and toss the brass after 8-10 loadings, but a lot of guys will do a bit more or less).

In rifles, you can get the same thing. For instance, a SAAMI spec'd chamber vs a chamber with a "tight neck". The tight neck thing is for a couple of reasons (maybe more, but i'm still working on my 1st cup of coffee). The first is to get a perfect alignment of the bullet with the bore - obviously, this is the accuracy piece. The second is to minimize case working. I have heard of bench rest guys shooting the same 10 rounds of brass all season long. However, they don't full length resize either.

In handguns, it isn't that big of a deal (unless you do some cool long range target stuff ). Probably a bigger factor is the load you are shooting and how hot it is. Also, how do you take care of your brass, and how many loadings are you trying to get out of it?

These are the kind of things that are fun to talk about, but each guys brass are going to last different dependent upon a lot of variables. When you shoot 50-60 round for a monthly match (the tactical rifle stuff up here) you can be real careful. When you are shooting 200 rounds 2-4 times a week like a lot of the guys on the board do, you need to just keep an eye on your brass and discard anything that starts to have funny stain, marks, etc.

[crocoscottie]

Originally Posted by 1buba

This DOES matter, but probably not in the way we expect, nor to any serious extent in handguns (I'm talking about normal numbers of reloads on the brass - for the handgun stuff, unless i'm shooting light 3 gun type loads, i try and toss the brass after 8-10 loadings, but a lot of guys will do a bit more or less).

In rifles, you can get the same thing. For instance, a SAAMI spec'd chamber vs a chamber with a "tight neck". The tight neck thing is for a couple of reasons (maybe more, but i'm still working on my 1st cup of coffee). The first is to get a perfect alignment of the bullet with the bore - obviously, this is the accuracy piece. The second is to minimize case working. I have heard of bench rest guys shooting the same 10 rounds of brass all season long. However, they don't full length resize either.

In handguns, it isn't that big of a deal (unless you do some cool long range target stuff ). Probably a bigger factor is the load you are shooting and how hot it is. Also, how do you take care of your brass, and how many loadings are you trying to get out of it?

These are the kind of things that are fun to talk about, but each guys brass are going to last different dependent upon a lot of variables. When you shoot 50-60 round for a monthly match (the tactical rifle stuff up here) you can be real careful. When you are shooting 200 rounds 2-4 times a week like a lot of the guys on the board do, you need to just keep an eye on your brass and discard anything that starts to have funny stain, marks, etc.

You're absolutely correct, the performance of a brass case is a confluence of many factors. I know that I've got lots more to learn, but as a rule I try to err on the side of caution.

A (stainless) Bar-Sto barrel shore is purty in a Glock tho.

Well, maybe "pimped out" is a better term. Now if I can only get my sights on the side of the frame, I'll be good to go.

[Brian1979]

I have no idea how many times my 45acp brass has been loaded. I just watch each and every round thats made and toss the ones that are split or deformed badly.

45acp is such low pressure I bet my brass has seen 10-20 reloads before any problems but other calibers may obviously vary greatly.

This is why I like the 550B since I actually have to touch each piece of brass and am able to watch it more closely for quality inspection. It would be a pain in the neck to keep round counts on brass and especially since while at the range I pick up other peoples brass they dont want.

To date I have never needed to buy any brass so the cost per 1k rounds for me to make is quite low when you factor in only primers, bullet, and powder.

[Dutchman]

I was debating between the Dillon 650 and the Hornady L&L AP progressive (also 5 stations). I went with the Hornady in part because of their "get loaded" deal. 1000 free bullets, which turned out to be about a $180 value for me. I got the press for $312 from midsouth. Check out the prices of the bullets and press. I have had no problems with the press other than having to smooth out the primer feed which now works flawlessly.

[NikNak]

Originally Posted by Dutchman

I was debating between the Dillon 650 and the Hornady L&L AP progressive (also 5 stations). I went with the Hornady in part because of their "get loaded" deal. 1000 free bullets, which turned out to be about a $180 value for me. I got the press for $312 from midsouth. Check out the prices of the bullets and press. I have had no problems with the press other than having to smooth out the primer feed which now works flawlessly.

Thanks for the update on the L&L from Hornady. I was curious if they worked and if anyone bought them ... My Lees have done fine, but I was curious about the Hornady. Dillon is just too spendy for my tight Dutch upbringing.

[NSP]

I'm starting to admit......I'm getting the itch to reload.

I'm thinking about starting up tournament shooting, is home reloaded ammo that much more precise than factory loads?

[El Gato]

Originally Posted by NSP

I'm starting to admit......I'm getting the itch to reload.

I'm thinking about starting up tournament shooting, is home reloaded ammo that much more precise than factory loads?

That's a "loaded" question if I ever heard one.

In My HUMBLE opinion, I can load more accurate rounds for certain calibers than I can purchase on the commercial market. However, for most rifle rounds and most handgun rounds, I cannot shoot well enough to notice the difference. If I was an accuracy fanatic....nothing wrong with that by the way... don't read anything into the word fanatic...substitute really very careful.... I'd do rifle for accuracy ... but we are a ccw forum

For 44spl, 45 colt, 32-20 I can load ammo that is much more accurate and significantly cheaper.... for shooting IDPA/uspsa etc. commercial ball is the way to go... If I was shooting lead for those shoots then the reloader is my friend...which is why the dillon is now at the top of my list of stuff to buy...

[1buba]

Originally Posted by El Gato

That's a "loaded" question if I ever heard one.

In My HUMBLE opinion, I can load more accurate rounds for certain calibers than I can purchase on the commercial market. However, for most rifle rounds and most handgun rounds, I cannot shoot well enough to notice the difference. If I was an accuracy fanatic....nothing wrong with that by the way... don't read anything into the word fanatic...substitute really very careful.... I'd do rifle for accuracy ... but we are a ccw forum

For 44spl, 45 colt, 32-20 I can load ammo that is much more accurate and significantly cheaper.... for shooting IDPA/uspsa etc. commercial ball is the way to go... If I was shooting lead for those shoots then the reloader is my friend...which is why the dillon is now at the top of my list of stuff to buy...

For .308, I was able to get about 1.75" at 200 yards (10 rounds) with Gold Metal Match. After a few load tests, I came up with a handload (using the same bullet) that got me to about 1.5" at 200 - when I work on the trigger (it's currently just over 6 #), I'll probably be able to notice more of a difference. Was it really worth it? Well, that's a 2.5" difference in group size at 1k. AND my loads are QUITE a bit cheaper... That doesn't even count the additional fun it adds to my shooting hobby.

Now, for .45 it is a bit different. I really don't believe that I can improve on accuracy with handloads in anything short of a 12" barrel (personal opinion here El Gato, no offense). However, I can save a little change, AND again, there is the fun quotient.

As a side note, I had a 14" .223 barrel on a contender (handgun frame). I bought a couple of boxes of chicom .223. On the first 20 rounds, I actually had a couple of rounds that didn't print on the paper at 100 yrds, but most of the rounds were inside 6". I then used a bore polishing kit that i bought from a feller up in Idaho. I ran 3 rounds through the bore. Cleaned the barrel and ran the net 20 rounds through. Put them all in 2.5" at 100. That's just some of the fun you can have ONLY if your reload!




Disclaimer - I don't suggest the bore "polishing" kits for any decent gun. I just had a lousy barrel and thought I'd try it out. For the purpose, it worked really good.

[spc]

I have reloaded with the Dillon 550 several times. It is a great set-up and I do about 2500 rounds of 45 in 4-5 hours. I understand the 650 is a fair amount faster and that is probably the one I will purchase.

Always use care and common sense, limit any distractions and check the powder charges (I do so visually). I like to check the powder charge every 100 rounds or so by weight.

Lot's of good advice presented so far.

spc

[El Gato]

Originally Posted by 1buba

For .308, I was able to get about 1.75" at 200 yards (10 rounds) with Gold Metal Match. After a few load tests, I came up with a handload (using the same bullet) that got me to about 1.5" at 200 - when I work on the trigger (it's currently just over 6 #), I'll probably be able to notice more of a difference. Was it really worth it? Well, that's a 2.5" difference in group size at 1k. AND my loads are QUITE a bit cheaper... That doesn't even count the additional fun it adds to my shooting hobby.

Now, for .45 it is a bit different. I really don't believe that I can improve on accuracy with handloads in anything short of a 12" barrel (personal opinion here El Gato, no offense). However, I can save a little change, AND again, there is the fun quotient.

As a side note, I had a 14" .223 barrel on a contender (handgun frame). I bought a couple of boxes of chicom .223. On the first 20 rounds, I actually had a couple of rounds that didn't print on the paper at 100 yrds, but most of the rounds were inside 6". I then used a bore polishing kit that i bought from a feller up in Idaho. I ran 3 rounds through the bore. Cleaned the barrel and ran the net 20 rounds through. Put them all in 2.5" at 100. That's just some of the fun you can have ONLY if your reload!




Disclaimer - I don't suggest the bore "polishing" kits for any decent gun. I just had a lousy barrel and thought I'd try it out. For the purpose, it worked really good.

NO offense taken... I know I can load 45acp loads that are super accurate.. more accurate than factory? not likely... the main reason I reload is price... I factor in my man hours in the price as I work two jobs and my free time is scarce... with the 30-50% jump in ammo prices I am going to be doing more reloading for some calibers... especially 44spl, 45 acp and 45 colt...I have a neet little 32-20 and just got a good deal on alot of bullets... need to set some time aside to warm up the press... The reason I was asking about the dillon is the speed for reloading... I would like to have my hornady set up for caliber changes and the dillon setup for 45acp as that is what shewhomustbeobeyed and I shoot alot of...

[NikNak]

Originally Posted by El Gato

NO offense taken... I know I can load 45acp loads that are super accurate.. more accurate than factory? not likely... the main reason I reload is price... I factor in my man hours in the price as I work two jobs and my free time is scarce... with the 30-50% jump in ammo prices I am going to be doing more reloading for some calibers... especially 44spl, 45 acp and 45 colt...I have a neet little 32-20 and just got a good deal on alot of bullets... need to set some time aside to warm up the press... The reason I was asking about the dillon is the speed for reloading... I would like to have my hornady set up for caliber changes and the dillon setup for 45acp as that is what shewhomustbeobeyed and I shoot alot of...

I know some guys who trust their brides enough to have her reload for them .... they are VERY trusting. They have had no issues as the ladies tend to be more careful than the guys. I am a big proponent of one press for one pistol caliber (when qty is desired)... that limits the changeouts etc ... I do understand and have used the Dillon 650, I just find it cost prohibitive vs. a Lee 1000.

[Hank Dodge]

Just wanted to chime in with the opinion that Dillon is well worth any added expense over the "other guys" when it come to a progressive press. I too bought a Lee 1000 as my first progressive. That thing was flat out dangerous because it would never throw a consistent powder charge for me. After a number of light load / squib conditions, I gave up on it and went back to filling each case from my old (reliable) Redding powder measure. Finally, after fighting with the Lee for more time than I should have, I bought the Dillon 550.

The 550 is a great machine. Set up a tool head for each caliber that you shoot, and switching them out is really simple. Powder charges are very accurately metered and round to round consistency is great. I can not say enough good things about this machine. For the average shooter, the 550 is more than enough to get the job done. The 650 is a bit more automated, but it is more expensive, slower to change between calibers, and the caliber conversions are more expensive as well. Oh, buy the Dillon dies; it does make a difference.


Hank

[Dutchman]

Originally Posted by Hank Dodge

Just wanted to chime in with the opinion that Dillon is well worth any added expense over the "other guys" when it come to a progressive press. I too bought a Lee 1000 as my first progressive. That thing was flat out dangerous because it would never throw a consistent powder charge for me. After a number of light load / squib conditions, I gave up on it and went back to filling each case from my old (reliable) Redding powder measure. Finally, after fighting with the Lee for more time than I should have, I bought the Dillon 550.

The 550 is a great machine. Set up a tool head for each caliber that you shoot, and switching them out is really simple. Powder charges are very accurately metered and round to round consistency is great. I can not say enough good things about this machine. For the average shooter, the 550 is more than enough to get the job done. The 650 is a bit more automated, but it is more expensive, slower to change between calibers, and the caliber conversions are more expensive as well. Oh, buy the Dillon dies; it does make a difference.


Hank

If I were going to stay with the dillon, I'd save up for the 650. Having 5 stations is nice. I know the Hornady powder drop (like the dillon) is very consistent, but five stations (either brand) allows use of 1. Sizing/decapping, 2. Powder drop/belling (via flow through belling die), 3 RCBS lockout die to check for missed or heavy charges 4 seating, 5 crimping (I like having the option to do those in separate steps)

The lockout die has caught a squib that happened due to my carelessness when I munched a case on the sizing die and never drove the press home (short stroked). When I lowered the press it advanced the stage (without the powder drop) and the lock out die caught MY mistake.

Regardless of brand, get the 5 station press and use the lockout die or powder cop after the drop. Then you will still have a spare station should you desire to seat and crimp separately.

just my $.02

[Hank Dodge]

Good point about the powder checking station. If you run these things at the speeds they are capable of, there is a good chance of missing something if things get stacked-up anywhere. I don't run my 550 all that fast and I tend to pay close attention to that powder throw station. Personally, I have not had any issues with it; but, I respect your opinion with regard to the benefit it offers. The 650 certainly has it's place.


Hank

[El Gato]

OK... I'm gonna order the press within the next week or so....
650
case feeder
stand and all the usual accessories....

Any suggestions on accessories?
Should I buy a caliber conversion with the powder measure?
what if i use the same charge in both calibers ie: 6.5 gr. Unique in 44 spl and 45 acp?
anyone...anyone.....anyone...?