New bullet choice?

[Rob P.]

For years I've carried standard lead core & copper jacketed ammo in my firearms. Then came frangible bullets.

Not for me I decided because I carry in the boonies too and while frangibles work against people they probably won't do squat against big(ger) critters except wound or anger. Frangibles also don't work for game animals (too much waste).

Then came the condor lead ammo ban.

So, now what do I do? It's a $100 fine and firearms conviction for just POSSESSING lead ammo in the ban area and I go out there a lot. I looked and discovered Cor-bon DPX solid copper hollow points. The data looks good. Nice penetration, good expansion, no fragmentation. Good, good, good.

But...

Does anyone have any experience with this ammo for handguns? Does it "work" as advertised when you need it?

[AMS MIKE]

maybe this will help.

Cor-Bon DPX .45 ACP

"After 13.5 inches of penetration, the all-copper Cor-Bon had expanded perfectly to .80 caliber and retained 100 percent of its weight."

[tanker22]

"Lead-free" only applies to hunting, as I read it. Haven't seen anything that includes CCW issues.

[Dutchman]

Originally Posted by tanker22

"Lead-free" only applies to hunting, as I read it. Haven't seen anything that includes CCW issues.

Yes, hunting only. Stupid law.

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by tanker22

"Lead-free" only applies to hunting, as I read it.

Are you sure its ONLY hunting? I thought in areas that are designated as California Condor Habitat, the lead free ammo ban affects all.

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

Are you sure its ONLY hunting? I thought in areas that are designated as California Condor Habitat, the lead free ammo ban affects all.

Apparently so: NRA-ILA :: Legislation

[EM2]

BILL NUMBER: AB 821 CHAPTERED
...AB 821, Nava. Ridley-Tree Condor Preservation Act.
... This bill would enact the Ridley-Tree Condor Preservation Act to
require the use of nonlead centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition
when taking big game and coyote within specified areas.

I says nothing about other uses such as CCW.
It also does not mention other types of hunting such as small game or varmints.

...The act would also require the commission, to the extent
funding is available, to provide hunters within these areas with
nonlead ammunition at no or reduced charge through a coupon program.

Hmm. reduced cost ammo????

...(2) The nonlead ammunition coupon program described in paragraph
(1) shall be implemented only to the extent that sufficient funding,
as determined by the Department of Finance, is obtained from local,
federal, public, or other nonstate sources in order to implement the
program.

Woops spoke too soon.


...The act would also declare the Legislature's intent to protect
vulnerable wildlife species, including the California condor, from
the ongoing threat of lead poisoning.

Statement of intent. CCW not included.


Conclusion:
As I read it CCW with lead ammo OK and possibly hunting for small game & varmints MAY be OK.

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by EM2

BILL NUMBER: AB 821 CHAPTERED
...AB 821, Nava. Ridley-Tree Condor Preservation Act.
... This bill would enact the Ridley-Tree Condor Preservation Act to
require the use of nonlead centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition
when taking big game and coyote within specified areas.

I says nothing about other uses such as CCW.
It also does not mention other types of hunting such as small game or varmints.

...The act would also require the commission, to the extent
funding is available, to provide hunters within these areas with
nonlead ammunition at no or reduced charge through a coupon program.

Hmm. reduced cost ammo????

...(2) The nonlead ammunition coupon program described in paragraph
(1) shall be implemented only to the extent that sufficient funding,
as determined by the Department of Finance, is obtained from local,
federal, public, or other nonstate sources in order to implement the
program.

Woops spoke too soon.


...The act would also declare the Legislature's intent to protect
vulnerable wildlife species, including the California condor, from
the ongoing threat of lead poisoning.

Statement of intent. CCW not included.


Conclusion:
As I read it CCW with lead ammo OK and possibly hunting for small game & varmints MAY be OK.

Yeah, my "apparently so" was in reference to the first part of my statement, that it does only affect hunting.

I guess they are mostly concerned about the condors eating carcases that are left around after being shot, and ingesting lead bullets or pellets?

[AuburnHunter]

Originally Posted by IAmASensFan

I guess they are mostly concerned about the condors eating carcases that are left around after being shot, and ingesting lead bullets or pellets?

Mostly true, I'd just replace carcases with gut piles. Their theory is that the lead bullet is in the gut pile that is left by hunters after they clean whatever game they shot. Some condor then comes and eats the gut pile and the lead bullet.

Personally, I think it is more about limiting hunting that it is about protecting condors.

[cyberhh]

Originally Posted by AuburnHunter

Personally, I think it is more about limiting hunting that it is about protecting condors.

I don't think the purpose is to target Hunting -- exactly -- but the laws are designed, sponsored and written by people who believe that hunting has no valid purpose and hunters are "evil" and therefor not worth consideration. It is not "targeting" hunters, rather apathy to the cares, wishes and wants of anyone else.

[crocoscottie]

Originally Posted by EM2

Conclusion:
As I read it CCW with lead ammo OK and possibly hunting for small game & varmints MAY be OK.

The last couple issues of The Firing Line (CRPA's monthly mag) have indicated that the Fish & Game commission has proposed disallowing all hunting (even varmint hunting) with lead bullets. Yes, that includes .22LR. I can't find a reference to it at the Fish & Game Commission's web site, but I didn't exactly make a thorough search.

I haven't heard anything about no lead ammo for target shooting or personal protection. At least not under the guise of protecting condors.

[Justaguy]

Originally Posted by Rob P.

But...

Does anyone have any experience with this ammo for handguns? Does it "work" as advertised when you need it?

If I were to use a .45 185 gr round, I would choose Corbon.
(I've seen my share of gunshot wounds. 25 years in healthcare, many in a neurosurgery practice.)
Having said that, my preference is Winchester 230 gr. SXT.

The bigger and heavier, the better. they make bigger permanent holes. Period.

[1buba]

Originally Posted by Justaguy

If I were to use a .45 185 gr round, I would choose Corbon.
(I've seen my share of gunshot wounds. 25 years in healthcare, many in a neurosurgery practice.)
Having said that, my preference is Winchester 230 gr. SXT.

The bigger and heavier, the better. they make bigger permanent holes. Period.

My, my, my. Just a guy my butt. Just a guy with a scalpel!

[IAmASensFan]

Originally Posted by 1buba

My, my, my. Just a guy my butt. Just a guy with a scalpel!

Makes me glad he's on OUR side.

[Justaguy]

For the record:

Bullet selection is important but so is bullet PLACEMENT!
(I'm sick of "my bullet is better than your bullet" arguments.)

So find a guy and git yur tranin' dun....