Airport Theft of Firearms

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by CenterX

I have both the TSA and the airline carriers rules printed, in the case and pulled out to go over with both the airline agent and the TSA agent as needed. Never any issues.

Even having the printout from the TSA webpage, I've had trouble. The response I got once when I showed them the printout was, "Well the rule has changed and the website hasn't been updated yet." If they're going to change the rules, and not tell us about it, how are we supposed to follow the rules?

The fact of the matter is, often the TSA personnel don't know their own rules. To give you a non-firearm related example, here are two statements from the TSA website:

TSA: Assistive Devices and Mobility Aids

"Security Officers will not ask nor require you to remove your prosthetic device, cast, or support brace."

"Security Officers should not be asking you to remove your orthopedic shoes, appliances, or medical device (insulin pump, feeding tube, ostomy or urine bag, or exterior component of cochlear implant) at any time during the screening process."

I wear orthopedic shoes and braces. At least half the time I'm asked if I can remove them.

[SierraNevadaCCW]

Yea...the rule changed...the website hasn't been updated ... I hope they didn't hurt themselves coming up with that one.

[spc]

[quote=GunSlut;15637]Missing Handguns At Airports Alarm National Security Experts

Handguns, stored in luggage, have been disappearing from some major airports, including here at Sea-Tac.





National security experts Robert Ramsey and Mark Solomon are alarmed by our findings, agreeing “there's obviously a problem.”



start my post,,spc
I wonder if the Mark Solomon referenced here is the same person who hosted the PDO website than is no longer. The Mark Solomon who hosted that site was a Virginia resident I do believe. Just a courious thought

spc

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by spc

I wonder if the Mark Solomon referenced here is the same person who hosted the PDO website than is no longer. The Mark Solomon who hosted that site was a Virginia resident I do believe. Just a courious thought

spc

I seriously doubt it. That Mark Solomon was a law student (which is part of the reason he shut down PDO - lack of time to maintain the site), and perhaps a programmer (not sure). But I don't think he he would qualify as a national security expert.

[spc]

Originally Posted by The Gimper

I seriously doubt it. That Mark Solomon was a law student (which is part of the reason he shut down PDO - lack of time to maintain the site), and perhaps a programmer (not sure). But I don't think he he would qualify as a national security expert.

Correct on all counts, I just thought the proxmity to his home in VA. and the spelling might cross over.

Thanks gimper

spc

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by spc

Correct on all counts, I just thought the proxmity to his home in VA. and the spelling might cross over.

Thanks gimper

spc

I exist to serve.

[CCWInstructor]

From A Fellow Firearms Trainer who experienced the following.

It is cleaned up a might as he does not want specifics about ID etc.

He is a top man and this tale is worth noting.

----

Domestic Flight Firearms Declaration Gone Bad - US Citizen's firearm gets diverted to China

This past summer I had the mother of all firearms declarations fiascos.
The final result is that a US owned airline sent my firearms to a communist country (mainland China, PRC) and left the container unlocked the entire time. They never asked for photo ID for this customer, but insisted in charging excess bag fees.

Here are the facts of what happened:
1: I took a roundtrip to teach a firearms course as a contractor, declaring 2 pistols with ammunition, 1 OC spray, knives, etc. Everything was done by TSA guidelines and then some. When I checked in the following happened: (a) the airline counter employee clearly did not have an idea of the proper firearms declaration procedure (b) she never called for TSA, (c) she had me put my two locks into my container along with the required tag (but never asked if it was unloaded or about the ammo, so I had to tell her), (d) she was more concerned about charging me for excess luggage and excess weight-cost to me was $180 total for 3 bags and this was after showing official ID and being very courteous and (e) she never once asked for any form of identification from me, though I had it in my hand ready to go. After going through screening, I was called by the PA system in the airport back through screening to the ticket counter. On the way, a TSA rep told me that the airline folks had messed up. At the counter, they blamed the TSA and said that I was "all set" and no need to come out of screening in the first place. I go back through screening and the only reason that I did not miss my flight was due to the fact that the takeoff was delayed. SO......I get to my destination and low and behold...on the baggage carousel at baggage claim my case containing firearms does not have any locks on it. The original and uncut locks were in the container. Good job airlines, you just transported unlocked firearms with ammo. This could be regarded as a "bad sign" with this particular airlines and I thought that the worst was over for my trip. but read on....

2: For my return trip, my counter experience was less eventful, but (a) they never asked for my photo identification and (b) even though I noticed that they did not conduct the correct procedure for a firearms declaration and handed them my locks they said "sir, don't worry so much....you're all set and have a nice flight." Off I went to screening and to my gate. I fly home and at the baggage claim my luggage containing firearms is not there. I file the standard claim, not panicking, but here is what happened next:
(a) at 3am local time next day, I start getting calls from Hong Kong, on one of my cell phones, telling me that my luggage has arrived and that I need to claim it
(b) subsequent calls (voicemails) state to me that I need to submit documentation to claim my luggage and they provided a fax number overseas to send this to.
(c) I call the airlines asking what is going on. I have back and forth calls with what turned out were customer service people in yet another country (I think India) and they were very blunt with me, did not admit blame, and made it seemed as though I had been the person making the mistake
(d) someone from the airlines reaches me by phone and I am being told that I have to send copies of my passport, drivers license, gun permit, and proof that I purchased all firearms to them by fax immediately and then they may release it from customs and I could expect in a few weeks to see my firearms.
(e) I finally put my foot down, now 24 hours after my luggage should have arrive with me, and call that airlines customer service and demand to speak to someone at the executive level, not from an overseas outsourced customer fulfillment center, and someone with a real name. I tell them that there is no way that I will send any form of photo ID, especially that with my SSAN, photo, etc. on it, and especially do a foreign country, to a communist country, and one that not only has war plans against ours, but that is known for collecting and archiving private info on US citizens travelling abroad. I tell them that its not my fault that this happened, which they now openly admitted to, but state that I have to do it the way that I was asked. I tell them no way, its their mistake, and their multibillion dollar company must have "some way" to make this go away and get my property back.
(f) I then consult a number of people in the know on what to do.
(g) the airlines then has some very very senior person now calling me and emailing to me. They admit all fault and despite their requests for me to forfeit all kinds of personal documents, I stand my ground, also reminding them that I am a member of the 3 largest firearms lobbies (including the NRA) and can write good letters. I gave them a deadline of 21 days from my flight to have said items into my hands, or they will face the consequences. At this point, I had already lost 1/2 day of wages to handle this, plus the excess baggage fees, plus lots of time on the phone and email.
(h) at one point in the conversations with the airline exec,they state to me that they have the ability to "make a settlement." I said that for 3-4K this is fine (their limit is 2k, but I have insurance on that particular trip to cover more) but I state to them very plainly...that they do not seem to be the least bit concerned about public safety (if the firearms had been stolen and now being used by criminals to hurt innocent people) and they don't seem to be concerned about the list of federal laws and import/export regs they are violating.
(i) I spend the next 2 weeks back and forth with these folks form the airline trying to get my bag back. I remind them that the following agencies will be contacted with all details if they fail to accomplish the mission US BATFE, US DOS, US DHS ICE, US DHS TSA.
(j) finally, i get a call saying that its inbound. It arrives, and nothing is missing from my luggage. Amazingly. 2 pistols, ammo, knives, lights, OC, etc. are in there. Here is the best part: the luggage containing firearms was unlocked. The original two locks that I handed to the counter agent (as mentioned on the original flight before) were INSIDE the luggage, unused, next to the firearms tag. Worse yet, next to this were the undisturbed 2 EXTRA LOCKS (provided in case they have to cut the original two, along with a business card, and a note describing this and how to call me in the airport.) The luggage tag said "Hong Kong" and had my name on it. It did not have the code for firearms used by that airline a checked bag containing a firearm. So,....my guns went all of the way across the world...then got off the carousel into a non-sterile airport in Hong Kong, China....sat there until airport employees found it and put it in their unclaimed luggage area (still unlocked), and then eventually someone figured out that this luggage should not have been there. Thank goodness that my firearms all have a trigger lock and chamber flag in them when declared.

3: SUMMARY: A very experienced and well travelled instructor has his legally and properly declared firearms, in a checked bag, at both ends of a trip, remain unlocked and go to overseas to an unfriendly country. At both ends of the trip, they never asked for photo ID when I checked in, but they insisted on charging excess bag fees. They were noncompliant with the longstanding and very standardized methods for conducting a firearms declaration for a checked bag. Some airports and airlines are very good about this, but these people don't ever read their same regulations and the firearms declaration has remained almost the same for about 15 years or so.

[Dan M.]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

From A Fellow Firearms Trainer who experienced the following.

It is cleaned up a might as he does not want specifics about ID etc.

He is a top man and this tale is worth noting.

Sheesh! What a debacle. That's amazing! Shipping your firearms to your destination is sounding more and more like the best way to go.