Are Glocks Unsafe?

[X-ffdo]

Good info!!!! I do not rechamber same rounds often, I try to rotate the rounds. My method is nothing scientific though. After a while, I shoot it, or if "I get the feeling"......range ammo bucket, shoot it at your own risk!

[SOLDIERSCOTT]

As a Military Police Officer, I have investigated a startling amount of NDs (Negligent Discharges) in my travels. Never once, have I seen any type of gun fire all on it's own. Guns are a tool, and tools don't work without being told to do so. I personally won't carry a Glock CCW, as I am more comfortable with my XD. Duty carry, sure, I will carry a G22. To each his own.

In my line of work, I have carried in a lot of different environments, and have almost always had a cover garment. I don't feel safe re-holstering a Glock into an IWB while wearing a cover garment while at work. I am always afraid my shirt will shoot me in the 4 o'clock area. My XD has the grip safety, and I just rotate my thumb behind the slide, which takes it off the grip safety, rendering the gun un-fire-able.

That said... Glocks are great handguns. A lot of PDs rely on them, as well as a lot of Military units around the world. No one can say enough good or bad things about each and every gun out there, but it seems that Glocks are hated the most. Never heard anyone actually give a realistic reason to dislike Glocks, so for now, I will just have to refrain from CCW with a Glock, and be happy using them for other fun activities.

[neuron]

Just thought I'd mention this: Why doesn't Glock put in a slide or other additional safety in its mechanism? I know it can be done, since there's an aftermarket safety available, and it seems to work. I can think of arguments from Glock about why they shouldn't..."It's a safe gun, if you don't pull the trigger it won't go Kaboom," or ""Why add something that can slow down your ability to shoot as quickly as possible," or worse, "Why add something that can malfunction when you need your Glock?"

Well, my answers to these hypothetical questions are: 1) Why not do something (like added safety) to help prevent fools from firing off their Glocks when they don't really want to?" 2) If you don't want to slow down your ability to access and fire quickly, leave off the additional safety...but let that be a choice of the person carrying the Glock; and, 3) Good point, if it were true, but it isn't. There's no reason an additional slide safety couldn't be made to be reliable.

So I wonder if the reason Glock doesn't redesign their guns is a perceived liability issue...they've been saying that their design isn't a problem and that AD's are the result of operator error...so if they were to do what I'd like them to do they might be afraid of admitting a design error. I say, get over it Mr. Glock and do the right thing.

[diableri]

Originally Posted by neuron

Just thought I'd mention this: Why doesn't Glock put in a slide or other additional safety in its mechanism? I know it can be done, since there's an aftermarket safety available, and it seems to work. I can think of arguments from Glock about why they shouldn't..."It's a safe gun, if you don't pull the trigger it won't go Kaboom," or ""Why add something that can slow down your ability to shoot as quickly as possible," or worse, "Why add something that can malfunction when you need your Glock?"

Well, my answers to these hypothetical questions are: 1) Why not do something (like added safety) to help prevent fools from firing off their Glocks when they don't really want to?" 2) If you don't want to slow down your ability to access and fire quickly, leave off the additional safety...but let that be a choice of the person carrying the Glock; and, 3) Good point, if it were true, but it isn't. There's no reason an additional slide safety couldn't be made to be reliable.

So I wonder if the reason Glock doesn't redesign their guns is a perceived liability issue...they've been saying that their design isn't a problem and that AD's are the result of operator error...so if they were to do what I'd like them to do they might be afraid of admitting a design error. I say, get over it Mr. Glock and do the right thing.

1. Fools will always find a way to be foolish. Fools won't use the safety.
2. This is already the choice of the person carrying the Glock most of the time. If you want a more manual safety, don't buy a Glock. There are plenty of choices of weapons with a more manual safety.
3. I'm sure they could make a reliable safety. I don't want a reliable, or any other safety on my personal defense weapon. My safety is in me. Don't point the thing anywhere you don't want to shoot, don't pull the trigger unless you want to kill or destroy something and lock the thing up.

I want NOTHING in the way making me have a false sense of safety. A handgun is a deadly weapon, it's never safe. The shooter can be safe, not the weapon. ALL machines can fail.

That's just my personal take on the manual safety. I don't fault anyone else for theirs but it's one of the reasons I prefer a Glock for personal defense.

[Brian_1911]

Originally Posted by SOLDIERSCOTT

As a Military Police Officer, I have investigated a startling amount of NDs (Negligent Discharges) in my travels. Never once, have I seen any type of gun fire all on it's own. Guns are a tool, and tools don't work without being told to do so. I personally won't carry a Glock CCW, as I am more comfortable with my XD. Duty carry, sure, I will carry a G22. To each his own.

In my line of work, I have carried in a lot of different environments, and have almost always had a cover garment. I don't feel safe re-holstering a Glock into an IWB while wearing a cover garment while at work. I am always afraid my shirt will shoot me in the 4 o'clock area. My XD has the grip safety, and I just rotate my thumb behind the slide, which takes it off the grip safety, rendering the gun un-fire-able.

That said... Glocks are great handguns. A lot of PDs rely on them, as well as a lot of Military units around the world. No one can say enough good or bad things about each and every gun out there, but it seems that Glocks are hated the most. Never heard anyone actually give a realistic reason to dislike Glocks, so for now, I will just have to refrain from CCW with a Glock, and be happy using them for other fun activities.

Good post but I question how it is better to fumble around reholstering an XD to avoid the beaver tail safety?

I guess anything is possible but I cant imagine how clothing would find its way into the trigger area while holstering. When I holster I lift my shirt and use my 2 eyes to watch as I insert it into the holster. The best way to do this is by gripping the gun normally but with your trigger finger fully extended along side the slide.

What you are describing is some how letting go of the guns frame and pushing the back of the slide. This sounds worse to me and one day you will drop the gun by letting it go in the first place. I would rather depend on my eyes to know there is nothing in the way of the gun while reholstering and keep a grip on it.

[9x45]

neuron, what makes any Glock different than any double action revolver? Press trigger, go bang, that's what it's supposed to do. If someone owns a wheelgun, and is worried about a safety, then get a single action revolver....

[Rond4x4]

I'm lookin' for an "unsafe" GLOCK 26...

[Brian_1911]

Oh I heard about those unsafe Glocks before. They have 2 brain cells left that are fighting and even sometimes a hammer finger that conveniently fits into the trigger guard at all times. Some times they are 70 yrs old or more and scare the crap out of us at the range and sometimes they are just plain stupid regardless of age. The great part is when the same ones try their hand at reloading it makes for a real bang!

[SOLDIERSCOTT]

Originally Posted by Brian_1911

Good post but I question how it is better to fumble around reholstering an XD to avoid the beaver tail safety?

I guess anything is possible but I cant imagine how clothing would find its way into the trigger area while holstering. When I holster I lift my shirt and use my 2 eyes to watch as I insert it into the holster. The best way to do this is by gripping the gun normally but with your trigger finger fully extended along side the slide.

What you are describing is some how letting go of the guns frame and pushing the back of the slide. This sounds worse to me and one day you will drop the gun by letting it go in the first place. I would rather depend on my eyes to know there is nothing in the way of the gun while reholstering and keep a grip on it.

I often have to re-holster in situations that don't allow me to carefully watch my holster opening while re-inserting the gun into it. I also don't always have both hands free when re-holstering, which can mean that my cover shirt or jacket may end up slipping some of it's material into the trigger guard (my cover garments are out to get me). As I said, I simply rotate my right thumb up from the thumb groove on the side of my XD and off of the grip safety and over the back of the slide. I do not "push" the slide with my thumb, and I have practiced this thousands (literally) of times. My thumb not being "around" the grip does not, in any way, lend to the possibility of me dropping my pistol. I am going to try to take a pic using my blue-gun and post it on here.

I truly do understand that the chances of my shirt shooting me in the thigh are extremely slim, and the times that I am required to single-hand holster my pistol are few and very far between, that one in 10,000 (or so) chance is more than I need to worry about at work. I am a fan of my XD for a few reasons, and one of them is because the grip safety makes me feel more at ease when re-holstering. I have owned several Glocks (17, 19, 22 x 4, 23, and 36) and I like(d) them very much...I just won't CCW with one any time soon.

I have said it before, a gun is a tool with no mind of it's own, and will not do anything unless told to do so. I am just overly careful in almost every aspect of my life.

[Brian_1911]

The XD's are sexy and I really like the options they have for various models. The 45acp with a regular length slide but shorter grip looked great for CCW but to me everything else is just modeled from glock.

I was all 1911's for a long time and now I just love beating the crap out of the glock and buying parts typically all less then $10 which drop right in.

I do really like the beaver tail safety and think its sort of like the HK squeeze cock idea which makes the pistol more safe but doesnt complicate things when it comes time to shoot. On the other hand I havent taken apart an XD but the glock is so stupid simple I cant get over how it seems to work and even when broken still seems to run.

I still fail to see how a shirt could every find its way into the trigger area. I mean a shirt hangs at your side and is parallel to the trigger not perpendicular so how could it possibly press it self in there?

[SOLDIERSCOTT]

Originally Posted by Brian_1911

The XD's are sexy and I really like the options they have for various models. The 45acp with a regular length slide but shorter grip looked great for CCW but to me everything else is just modeled from glock.

I was all 1911's for a long time and now I just love beating the crap out of the glock and buying parts typically all less then $10 which drop right in.

I do really like the beaver tail safety and think its sort of like the HK squeeze cock idea which makes the pistol more safe but doesnt complicate things when it comes time to shoot. On the other hand I havent taken apart an XD but the glock is so stupid simple I cant get over how it seems to work and even when broken still seems to run.

I still fail to see how a shirt could every find its way into the trigger area. I mean a shirt hangs at your side and is parallel to the trigger not perpendicular so how could it possibly press it self in there?

I hope the pics work. As you can see, I still have a good grip on the XD, and moving my thumb is not going to cause me to drop it. I used the blue gun since my real one is loaded, and I don't play with it...even to prove a point. I asked my partner to try to pull it from my hand just to test the theory in case someone ever tries to take it from me while I am re-holstering. While he was able to twist it from my grip, he was not able to take it by pulling straight. Although it might have something to do with the fact that I am a LOT bigger than he is....

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

I am talking about the shirt being inside the holster and the gun going into to it too. As I said before, the likelihood of this happening is slim to none, but enough that I prefer not to take the chance, given the increased liability of an ND where I work.

[Keith(CA)]

On a whim, I went to the range tonight. I have a S&W .45 that I put a new set of sights on (XS Sights 24/7 Big Dot), and wanted to try them out. I mention it because I'm used to a DA/SA pistol.

I've been thinking about getting a compact because my S&W is too big for me to conceal under anything but heavy clothing. So, I rented a Glock 30 - the subcompact .45 ACP. It's a double stack so was a bit of a stretch for my grip, but it was still a very pleasant experience.

The recoil felt pretty much the same as my heavy stainless Smith, but the trigger was not at all what I expected. My Smith has a point where the trigger meets resistance and there is no more movement, until you squeeze with enough pressure to overcome. Then the trigger suddenly breaks and and the gun goes bang.

On the Glock, I could feel the trigger reset on my follow-through, but I couldn't feel any point when the trigger was about to break. The only way I can describe it is light and smooth. It was different, but I have to say I liked it.

I still want to try an XD. Springfield is coming out with the XDm chambered in .45 ACP, but I don't think it'll ever be sold in California. I also want to try out a Taurus PT-145.

Well, that's it, just wanted to share my first Glock experience.

[Keith92555]

I think it was CCWInstructor who told me a story of an LEO who went to put the Glock in his holster and while holstering his drawstring from his pullover jacket got caught in the trigger. He didn't notice this and went to work with it like that. When he got to work he went to pull the jacket off over his head and it pulled up on the trigger with the gun still in the holster and BANG!! Fired it from the holster. You have to be careful how you handle EVERY gun you touch. Every gun has some sort of weakness when it comes to safety (hint-it is between your ears)

Originally Posted by Brian_1911

The XD's are sexy and I really like the options they have for various models. The 45acp with a regular length slide but shorter grip looked great for CCW but to me everything else is just modeled from glock.

I was all 1911's for a long time and now I just love beating the crap out of the glock and buying parts typically all less then $10 which drop right in.

I do really like the beaver tail safety and think its sort of like the HK squeeze cock idea which makes the pistol more safe but doesnt complicate things when it comes time to shoot. On the other hand I havent taken apart an XD but the glock is so stupid simple I cant get over how it seems to work and even when broken still seems to run.

I still fail to see how a shirt could every find its way into the trigger area. I mean a shirt hangs at your side and is parallel to the trigger not perpendicular so how could it possibly press it self in there?

Too bad you aren't in SoCal. I would let you try out the XD40. It really is a great gun. I have the G27 also and the trigger is not as user friendly as the Springfield. Glad you enjoyed the experience though.

Originally Posted by Keith(CA)

On a whim, I went to the range tonight. I have a S&W .45 that I put a new set of sights on (XS Sights 24/7 Big Dot), and wanted to try them out. I mention it because I'm used to a DA/SA pistol.

I've been thinking about getting a compact because my S&W is too big for me to conceal under anything but heavy clothing. So, I rented a Glock 30 - the subcompact .45 ACP. It's a double stack so was a bit of a stretch for my grip, but it was still a very pleasant experience.

The recoil felt pretty much the same as my heavy stainless Smith, but the trigger was not at all what I expected. My Smith has a point where the trigger meets resistance and there is no more movement, until you squeeze with enough pressure to overcome. Then the trigger suddenly breaks and and the gun goes bang.

On the Glock, I could feel the trigger reset on my follow-through, but I couldn't feel any point when the trigger was about to break. The only way I can describe it is light and smooth. It was different, but I have to say I liked it.

I still want to try an XD. Springfield is coming out with the XDm chambered in .45 ACP, but I don't think it'll ever be sold in California. I also want to try out a Taurus PT-145.

Well, that's it, just wanted to share my first Glock experience.

Keith

[neuron]

Originally Posted by 9x45

neuron, what makes any Glock different than any double action revolver? Press trigger, go bang, that's what it's supposed to do. If someone owns a wheelgun, and is worried about a safety, then get a single action revolver....

Well, there are some differences. First, the Glock trigger pull (on a cocked Glock) is very light, which makes it a real pleasure to shoot, and unlike DA/SA autopistols (like the 92FS) the trigger pull is the same on the first and all subsequent shots. It's really nice, and I like it as much as I like shooting a 1911. Second, the Glock is technically neither SA or DA...it is something intermediate that could be called "one-and-a-half" action. A true DA trigger pull (as in the revolver) both advances the cylinder and cocks and drops the hammer.

Revolvers don't need safeties because the DA trigger pull is strong enough to prevent most ADs. If you want to make your revolver as sensitive to accidental trigger pulls as a Glock, try carrying it with the hammer cocked (in SA mode for the next shot).

With all respect, I agree with diableri's opinion about the best safety being between your ears and not on the gun. I carried a G26 for years, never had an AD with it, but I gave it up because I wanted to carry in ways that might be unsafe with a chambered/cocked Glock (e.g. in a pocket, tucked into a waistband, or even in a portfolio or attache case). I decided to carry DA/SA autopistols (92FS and PPK/S) that are inherently less prone to unintentional trigger pull kabooms, and which, IMHO are just as ready to shoot under duress as the Glock.

[X-ffdo]

Originally Posted by 9x45

neuron, what makes any Glock different than any double action revolver? Press trigger, go bang, that's what it's supposed to do. If someone owns a wheelgun, and is worried about a safety, then get a single action revolver....

Broke da code!!!!!! That is the way it is!!!!!! I could not have said it better!!