Are Glocks Unsafe?

[siedkick]

For what it's worth:

I requal every 6 months out at the Colorado State Patrol's range, and have gotten to know the armourer out there. While contemplating my most recent gun purchase, I solicited his opinion. He didn't like the Glocks, and went into a lengthy, detailed discussion as to why. I don't remember everything he said, but materials and workmanship were mentioned a lot. He also produced several Ziploc bags containing the remains of Glocks which had blown up on their range. I was left with the impression that many departments still use them because they often come in with the lowest bid.

[neuron]

Do not pull a Clock trigger until you want the gun to go bang. It's as simple as that. The Glock "safe action" (GSA) is simplicity itself, really fine engineering. It is the closest thing to the crisp response of the 1911 "cocked and locked" SA trigger pull, without the "locked" aspect. The article made one mistake, which is that there is NO DIFFERENCE between the trigger setting/pull of first and subsequent shots with the GSA. It's really like a cocked and ready to fire 1911.

That being said, GSA is criticized for not having "more safeties." The real "safety" is between the ears of the Glockster. A Glock carried cocked with a loaded round in the chamber is the quickest pistol to access in a gunfight. Just pull it from where you've stashed it, point it, and pull the trigger.

These things that make the Glock a great combat handgun also make it prone to accidental discharge (AD). The cardinal rules with Glocks are: 1) Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire; and, 2) Carry a Glock in a secure holster that protects the gun (i.e. the trigger) from being activated until you want to fire . A cocked Glock carried loosely in a pocket or briefcase could have its trigger activated unintentianally.

[CCWInstructor]

If you treat a Glock like is does not have a safty, you will be fine.

I replace all my Glock barrels with a Bar-Sto. The case has full support then. Glock sued and had Kaboom.com pulled, other wise you could see why I do that.

[X-ffdo]

Once in a while I check for bulging spent cartridges out of my Glocks, don't seem to do that with my other firearms. I have not seen bulging of spent brass. My Glocks have been of recent manufacture though, nothing real old. I think they have been doing "CYA", slowly improving the more recent manufactures.

[Rond4x4]

I have a gen 1 glock 19 with a bazilion round through it , no issues.

[CCWInstructor]

Originally Posted by Rond4x4

I have a gen 1 glock 19 with a bazilion round through it , no issues.

40's and 45's have generally been the problem. Generally. . . .

[9x45]

Well, BarSto’s, and all the rest of the aftermarket barrels have tighter chambers, and a little more support, but none are fully supported. A Glock is not a 1911, it has all of the ramp in the barrel, and not partly in the frame. If you are really about chamber support, then just get the .357SIG.

G17, G19 BarSto, G23, G20, G31

[X-ffdo]

If you look at how they develop the GAP round, they reinforced the brass at the back end, the primer end of the cartridge, including the cylindrical part of the cartridge, the unsupported area.

[9x45]

Here is a better pic of the .357SIG

[Brian_1911]

I was worried about my 21sf when I started to read the internet but decided its a non issue and moved on. I reload and my brass is quite old and since I pick it up from USPSA matches who knows how used some of it is since everyone their reloads. I have yet to see any bulges in my brass but I imagine if you load beyond what you should then it will be an issue.

[CalTeacher]

I reload for my Glock 21 and I've never had a problem. I've loaded up some 200gr. XTP's at about 1050 fps and the only problem I had was extractor marks on the brass. As long as you follow safe reloading practices then you're fine.

[El Gato]

Originally Posted by CCWInstructor

40's and 45's have generally been the problem. Generally. . . .

I'll 2nd that ... the blown glocks I have seen were 40's and one 45...
the 45 was a model 30 that dude was shooting lead bullet reloads in ... alot...alot alot...not in more...

the 40's are suspected short rounds... where the person had shortened the round by repeated re-chambering and the round became short by the bullet being pushed into the case causing a chamber problem...

we may see more glocks with problems simply because there are alot more glocks than just about anything else...

Greg may have seen something else but that's what I have seen...with glocks...

My Dept. shoots alot... before the recent ammo crunch...our officers averaged about 250 rounds a month each officer...which is a ton of training... and our model 23's seemed to have the most problems... the old design of the slide lock spring being the most problematic... we have traded out almost all of the model 23's ... one we wore out...the slide was so loose it wouldn't lock up right...the rails on the frame were very very thin... est... about 50,000 rounds of 40 in a model 23?... just a guess nobody knows... anyway... we shoot alot and have never had a problem with the 180 gr loads we use...all winchester factory... we are down to about 150 rounds a month per officer...for 9 practice sessions a year...due to budget problems...no issues... we did have a problem a few years ago... we would have the officer unload and then chamber the same round each month.. at the end of a year I pulled all 125 or so rounds out of the chambers and found some were very shot... avg. 10 thousandths of an inch...we now shoot the chambered round and give the officer a new round to chamber each shooting session... cheap compared to a new gun and all of the workers comp that would go along with a catastrophic failure...not to mention the confidence problems for one of our less confident shooters if his/her gun blew up....

We have no intention of changing guns... even if we had the money...and I'm pretty sure Smith and Wesson would love to give us a killer deal on our old glocks to switch... and even though I am pretty sure the smith or the XD would fit more of our small female officers way better...the glock has been very very serviceable...

hope this adds to the discussion...

[9x45]

My collective observations about Glock kabooms over the last 15 years or so; starting with the definition of a kaboom versus a case rupture. Kaboom results in a split barrel, split slide, broken/cracked frame, destroyed magazine, and usually missing the trigger group. Case rupture only blows out the 6 o’clock portion of the case, magazine is blown out along with the magazine catch, remainder of the gun is intact.

I’ve seen four 9mm Glocks, 2 case ruptures, 2 kabooms. I had a case rupture on a G34 and received a small cut on the middle finger from the ejected mag release, and one G17 a shooting buddy had, same issue. The other 2 were G17s trying to run major 9, ie, a power floor of 165,000 (bullet weight times muzzle velocity). For example, a 115 gr bullet going 1,440 fps, generally not a good idea in a Glock, but works quite well in 1911s. Both guns were destroyed. All were running reloads.

40S&W Glocks, probably around 2 dozen, usually G22s/G35s running reloads, actually saw two in one day. All reloads, and all loaded on a Dillon 550, manual indexing press using 180 gr bullets and fast burning high density powders. High density powders can easily be triple and quadruple charged without spilling over the case. Best to use a slow burning low density powder with the 40S&W. Also two G22s running factory Federal ammo when the gun first came out, ammo was well over pressure. San Bernardino did not issue 40S&W to the deputies for years to come after that.

45acp, at least a dozen, most of them were reloads using 230 grs and fast burning powders. Most seriously hurt shooter in all of this was a deputy who blew up his department issued G21 with reloads and received several facial lacerations, plus he had to explain this mess to his Captain. The other 2 were running new American Ammo (out of Miami). Check Frontsight for their experience with this stuff. Anyway the shooter was at FTA and I watched as the G21 blew up. His only injury was a cut middle finger, and he went on to finish the class using a borrowed gun and good ammo.

Now to be fair I have seen plenty of blown up 1911s, S&W’s and all other manner of handguns. All metal guns tend to do more damage to the shooter than plastic framed guns which absorb a lot of the energy. (None of these come close to the damage a blown up rifle does. We just had a guy cook off an M1 Garrand at a local range and it messed him up pretty good).

All kabooms are from overpressure, period. Whether it’s a double charge or bullet setback, the end result is the chamber pressure far exceeds the allowable design pressure. Reloading is inherently dangerous, you have to accept that. The more you reload, the more you shoot, the greater the chance of a problem especially if you pickup range brass. You can only measure chamber pressure with a test barrel, so you have to follow the powder manufacturer recipes. Buying new brass and high quality bullets (Montana Gold, Zero, Precision to name a few) will also minimize case problems.

At the end of the day, Glock will replace your blow up gun for a reasonable cost, today I think about $280, maybe higher.

[Brian_1911]

I reload for my glock and all I own are guns in 45acp. I use a hot fast powder (bullseye) and 230grn fmj bullets. I have yet to have an issue but OCD seems to be in my favor this time.

I have not had any bulged brass and no reason to be scared of chamber support or lack of it in my glock. If you reload hot and near max then you are asking for trouble and honestly wasting powder and life of the gun. The idea of reloading isnt to shoot the hottest load possible its to down tune the ammo just enough to make the gun function. If you do load hot thats fine but I wouldnt be out shooting paper with them for fun when a light load would do the same.

As for short rounds I chambered my Gold Dot 230grn round probably 20+ times before I could see a very slight ring around the case from the bullet pressing in just a tad. I think most rounds are at 1.20 and this one was now 1.198 and started to stick in the case gauge. Good ammo should not set back easily and this round looks pretty beat to hell. On the other hand I am observant of these type of things and go to great lengths for safety when it comes to reloading and managing firearms.

Oh and by the way my Toyota is still running just fine so dont believe everything you hear, lol. People tend to leave out valuable info when they make a mistake or some are too stupid to know they made one and will keep on doing it.

[dwlatham]

Originally Posted by Brian_1911

I reload for my glock and all I own are guns in 45acp. I use a hot fast powder (bullseye) and 230grn fmj bullets. I have yet to have an issue but OCD seems to be in my favor this time.

I have not had any bulged brass and no reason to be scared of chamber support or lack of it in my glock. If you reload hot and near max then you are asking for trouble and honestly wasting powder and life of the gun. The idea of reloading isnt to shoot the hottest load possible its to down tune the ammo just enough to make the gun function. If you do load hot thats fine but I wouldnt be out shooting paper with them for fun when a light load would do the same.

As for short rounds I chambered my Gold Dot 230grn round probably 20+ times before I could see a very slight ring around the case from the bullet pressing in just a tad. I think most rounds are at 1.20 and this one was now 1.198 and started to stick in the case gauge. Good ammo should not set back easily and this round looks pretty beat to hell. On the other hand I am observant of these type of things and go to great lengths for safety when it comes to reloading and managing firearms.

Oh and by the way my Toyota is still running just fine so dont believe everything you hear, lol. People tend to leave out valuable info when they make a mistake or some are too stupid to know they made one and will keep on doing it.

I've heard that about Toyotas, you better go catch it! Just kidding