Introduction & 1st Question

[inboost]

Hi All, looks like a great new site!

I'm on the brink of taking the plunge for CCW in Orange County. I know I'm in good hands and among friend here, so I look forward to both contributing and drawing (pun intended ) on the fantastic resources found at CalCCW.

My first question:

Anyone using an H&K P7M8 for daily carry? This is probably the best candidate in my small collection of pistols for the task of CCW. Most of the stuff I own is full size or better. I also have a Colt Agent which I think would be a good #2 on the list (alloy framed detective special, so no +P ).

So I'd like to hear from those of you who carry the P7 with respect to methods of carry. I am a shirt tucker with a belt load of gear already (swiss army tool, flashlight, & cell always on strong hip) so I'm obviously in for a change. I realy would prefer to maintain my current image as it's well known by those around me and I work publically from time to time.

My intensions are to evaluate concealed carry at work (I have permission) and see how it changes my daily MO. If it suits and I feel that I can generate GC for the Sheriff then I'll embark on the journey.

I've done a fair amount of reading and I've come up with the following:

Leather is consdiered more comfortable and better on a gun's finish (important in the case of the P7's value). It seems that most would also agree that leather is a bit bulkier too which makes IWB for a shirt tucker like myself a concern. Furthermore, leather holsters of quality tend to be unavailable from the respected manufacturers (Milt Sparks, Del Fatti, etc.) due to the age old problem of high demand vs. custom hand-built construction.

Plastic (typically kydex) holsters are far more available, always lighter, and noticeably thinner hence a bit more concealable. They are also known for pain and suffering for those who place them IWB without undershirts or 'moleskin' patches on the body side of the gear. Finally many seem to think the platic holsters will marr the finish on firearms. Personally I find this a bit hard to believe considering the desparity in hardness of the two materials coming together (steel vs. plastic). I can certainly conceed that plastic will host foreign particles of steel, etc. but I'm not so sure a leather holster would be any less likely to capture foreign material (We're talking dust/sand/metal particulate from a machine shop environment,etc.).

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I'm grateful for the replys which may also follow!

[CCWInstructor]

Inboost, PM True Brit, he had at least 6 of them in the M8/M13 configuration. He will know what works and what doesn't with the P7s.

He's my expert with that model of HK.

[Harry Carry]

Welcome, Boost. Like CCWI said, True Brit is the P7 guy. I believe he receives every other one manufactured. They fall from his pockets like lint.

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by inboost

Hi All, looks like a great new site!

I'm on the brink of taking the plunge for CCW in Orange County. I know I'm in good hands and among friend here, so I look forward to both contributing and drawing (pun intended ) on the fantastic resources found at CalCCW.

My first question:

Anyone using an H&K P7M8 for daily carry? This is probably the best candidate in my small collection of pistols for the task of CCW. Most of the stuff I own is full size or better. I also have a Colt Agent which I think would be a good #2 on the list (alloy framed detective special, so no +P ).

So I'd like to hear from those of you who carry the P7 with respect to methods of carry. I am a shirt tucker with a belt load of gear already (swiss army tool, flashlight, & cell always on strong hip) so I'm obviously in for a change. I realy would prefer to maintain my current image as it's well known by those around me and I work publically from time to time.

My intensions are to evaluate concealed carry at work (I have permission) and see how it changes my daily MO. If it suits and I feel that I can generate GC for the Sheriff then I'll embark on the journey.

I've done a fair amount of reading and I've come up with the following:

Leather is consdiered more comfortable and better on a gun's finish (important in the case of the P7's value). It seems that most would also agree that leather is a bit bulkier too which makes IWB for a shirt tucker like myself a concern. Furthermore, leather holsters of quality tend to be unavailable from the respected manufacturers (Milt Sparks, Del Fatti, etc.) due to the age old problem of high demand vs. custom hand-built construction.

Plastic (typically kydex) holsters are far more available, always lighter, and noticeably thinner hence a bit more concealable. They are also known for pain and suffering for those who place them IWB without undershirts or 'moleskin' patches on the body side of the gear. Finally many seem to think the platic holsters will marr the finish on firearms. Personally I find this a bit hard to believe considering the desparity in hardness of the two materials coming together (steel vs. plastic). I can certainly conceed that plastic will host foreign particles of steel, etc. but I'm not so sure a leather holster would be any less likely to capture foreign material (We're talking dust/sand/metal particulate from a machine shop environment,etc.).

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and I'm grateful for the replys which may also follow!

Welcome aboard! Great first post!

I think you got it right that leather can trap foreign particles that can marr your finish. Probably as much..if not more so than Kydex. If you are going to carry a lot then you will get wear on our primary CCW. I guess you either have to accept it or look for another quality handgun that you would not consider to be a safe queen.

[Glock32]

Welcome to the forum.

Even though I don't carry my P7 (its 'only' a 9mm) I know it makes a nice, flat carry package. The gun is heavy for its size, a strong belt and good holster are a must. If you plan on tucking in your shirt you will have a hard time concealing this gun, unless you are willing to move to more exotic ways of carry (thunderwear, pager-pal, tuckable IWB). Personally I would not recommend any of them, but that is just my opinion.
A solid shoulder holster worn over a t-shirt and under a dress shirt may be an option. Truth is you will have a hard time finding a good holster for the P7 off the shelf. I had a Milt Spaks made for mine, but never used it. I ended up selling it new in the bag with a spare mag carrier on ebay. It sold for $70 more than what I paid for it. Go ahead and order one. By the time you'll pick up your ccw the holster will be ready. Don't like it? See above.
Your little Colt will make an excellent gun for pocket carry. I would look into the possibilty of adding a hammer shroud (available through

http://www.wallerandson.com/hammershrouds.htm

if you plan on carrying the revolver that way. I would also recommend a good quality pocket holster (kramer, milt sparks, maybe galco), even though it will add bulk. Keeps the gun from shifting around during your work day. A shoulder holster will also work for the Cobra/Detective Special. Galco makes a nice one and it should be available for your gun. In case of the shoulder holster you do NOT want the hammer shroud.

You can always add a third gun at a later point. Fact is you will find out quickly what works for you and what doesn't.

Good luck and yes, you are in good hands here.

[K-dog.v3]

I carry plastic guns so I use plastic holsters. I like the positive retention of an open kydex vs leather with no thumb break. With a Kydex I get a "snap" holstering and un-holstering. I use Comp-Tac Infidel.


Edit: Comp-Tac does not makes a tuck holster for the P7

[1buba]

Welcome aboard Inboost.

[inboost]

Wow, great replies from all, thank you!

I've PM'd True Brit and asked him to reply here so that others who search can benefit from his wisdom.

BonoVox, I would have to agree. While safe queen describes everything in my small collection I am not opposed to carry wear on the P7 if it truely is the right choice for me.

Glock32, excellent reply! The P7 is indeed a dense object. My love for the clockwork inside may not be enough to keep it hipside. If it's uncomfortable or prints too easily then it's going to get left behind which is obviously counter-productive to going through the whole CCW process. I'm still on the fence about 24/7 carry vs. time-of-risk carry which may add to my waffleing about how to proceed. The commitment for 24/7 carry seems to have a significant impact on one's inventory of firearms and related concealed carry parts inventory. While I'm all for a spending spree, my wallet won't tollerate it for the mean time (Father of three, Wife stays home to keep them in line). Carrying something I currently own on private property the way I intend to in public once licensed is my first step in the investigation of my options. It sounds like the Colt Agent might be a better choice for such a test. It currently has a very comfortable but rather bulbous Pachmeyer grip on it (the way it came to me). While it will drop into the front pocket on my standard levi jeans, it protrudes when loaded into the aft pocket. I had not looked into pocket carry with the Agent as a 6-shot revolver has some thickness to it by nature that I assumed would prevent it's use in such a manner. The hammer shroud would greatly improve the retrieval from a pocket, but I had even considered bobbing the hammer. Would this be considered more favorable than the shroud?

K-dog, Certainly makes sense to me, however I suspect that plastic-on-plastic might gall or chafe with time producing more cary marks than steel on plastic. If I am going to puchase a pistol specifically for concealed carry it might very likely be plastic in some respect. I've got an interest in the Kahr PM9 after reading through this site. I've seen photos of a P7 in a C-T.A.C. holster which is the one I had singled out as a potential for my evaluation of carry. Their site leads me to belive it will tuck, perhaps this is more subjective than fact? I expect that manufacturers of these products are prone to glorifying their products just like any other consumer product out there so their staements may be cleverly on the edge of reality.

[Glock32]

You are very welcome sir.
I would prefer the hammer bob over the shroud. the bobbed hammer mod is reversible with the purchase of a second hammer. the hammer shroud is a permanent fix (frame needs drilling and tapping).
I find the P7 hard to carry, but I have very limited experience with it as a carry gun. I love the gun, it is super accurate. The size/weight/mag capacity/caliber ratio is not ideal. If it was my only choice I would carry it without a problem. My choice of carry would be a solid IWB holster (Milt Spark VM2) with a 1.5 Inch belt (again Sparks or any other sturdy gun belt capable of supporting the gun). One thing to think about is the short barrel lenght of the P7. It will want to wobble and tilt a lot more that let's say a full size 1911. The solid carry platform will take care of this issue. A $10 gun show special will not. My guess is you will carry the .38 a lot more. Just a guess.
TruBrit should be here to help soon. He is also the man to talk to about holsters.....he has excellent taste.

[swdr]

Originally Posted by 1buba

Welcome aboard Inboost.

+1 .

[Lee F. Smith]

Welcome and good luck.

[OCRancher]

Welcome inboost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[inboost]

Thanks for extending the welcome SWDR, Lee, and OCR!

Glock32, At you suggestion I bobbed the hammer on my Agent this morning. Certainly makes it a lot handier!



Pocket carry on something like this would most commonly be in what position? I imagine it's strong side and in my case it's going to be a pants pocket. The levi jeans I wear don't seem to be too friendly on the front pocket and the rear isn't deep enough. I suppose those who pocket carry something like this purchase pants specific for the cause?

I think the rubber grips probably impead pocket carry as they tend to 'grab' at materials like denim and cotton. I'm thinking a set of 'secret service' grips from Eagle might be the ticket:



Any others to consider?

[Glock32]

WOW!
I am impressed. Looks like you did a very nice job on that hammer. I take it you are not new to gunsmithing?
I carry a j-frame light weight in my strong front pocket at times. Rubber grips do not work for me. I can't get the gun out of the pocket. Smooth wooden grips in boot-grip style work best in my opinion. Eagle makes a decent grip. They are made in India (or at least used to) and the quality is O.K. Badger and Craig Spegel make nice grips, too. The trick is to look for something not too bulky.
Large front pokets help, no doubt. I would never carry in the rear pocket. Today I caried my j-frame in a Galco shoulder holster for 10 hours under a short sleave shirt. Printing was not a problem. Comfort was after about 6 or 7 hours. Nothing bad, just not ideal.
Here's a pic of my semi-bob job.



and apic of the gun showing my grips.



Hope this helps.

[inboost]

Glock32,

I would say I've been gunsmithing since my first gun, a new Colt Series 80 Government model in stainless steel that I bought 15 years ago. The shop that sold it to me nearly ruined it with 'upgrades', and they weren't competent nor caring enought to make it right. So as an engineering student I decided to make it right myself, who else would give the problem as much attension as I would?

So with a Jerry Kuhnhausen book and a few extra tools added to my then primarily automotive tool inventory I set to work. I still have the gun today and the errors made are just a distant memory. I've built several rifles since and of course tinkered with everything I own save for the P7. I can't bring myself to tear it down for some reason, probably because the engineer in me sees the system as flawless and the risk of corrupting that perfection outweights my curiosity (for the time being).

The hammer bob was a straight forward but labor intensive exercise and I would say the most helpful tool in executing it was patience. It took only a hacksaw, some files, assorted grades of sandpaper, and a dremel tool to make it look like it came that way from Colt. I did spend about 3 hours on it though, lots of little changes over and over until it was 'right'.

I'll keep looking around at the various grip offerings, thank you for the suggestions. Did you wear your shoulder rig over anything or was it directly in contact with skin? I hadn't thought of trying a shoulder rig in such a manner.