NRA trying to take credit for the 11/18 meeting

[AMS MIKE]

Originally Posted by 1buba

Thank you. The words just aren't enough.

I with ya Buba. Can't even say a big enough thanks to all involved.

[PirateQueen]

Originally Posted by RomanDad

11,000 Doesn't even come close to what my bill would be....

I would like to thank you for all your time, effort and passion that we have been so fortunate to have.
Thank you.

And thanks to everyone else who made the begining of our journey an exciting and memorable first phase
Thank you.

[spc]

Through everyone's efforts OC may well be on their way to success. I applaud everyone for their time and energy spent in resolving this issue.



spc

[GunSlut]

Now their attorney is trying to take credit for our work. Thre is one thing I hate worst than a attorney, that's a lying attorney.

News from NRA & Chuck Michel: OC Sheriff Halts CCW Revocations For Now... - Calguns.net

[swdr]

Originally Posted by GunSlut

Now their attorney is trying to take credit for our work. There is one thing I hate worst than a attorney, that's a lying attorney.

News from NRA & Chuck Michel: OC Sheriff Halts CCW Revocations For Now... - Calguns.net

Despicable. This is what gives attorneys a bad name. You've got to wonder who'd ever hire an attorney that lied in public.

[High Country]

First off, I will send to you a check to help with the costs incured.

Second, we lose any time we start bad-mouthing other organizations that are involved in the support of the Second Amendment. Whether the NRA did more or less, is not the point. The point is that everyone used their respective reaches to get people involved. The battle will be long and our cause was not hurt by having Ed Worley (California State Liaison for the NRA-ILA nor Chuck Michelle (legal counsel for the NRA, and CRPA in California) present.

I agree the H. Paul Payne is hard to take in large, or small doses. But, few of us have worked as hard, or for the same number of years in support of gun rights as has Paul.

[DVSmith]

Originally Posted by High Country

First off, I will send to you a check to help with the costs incured.

Second, we lose any time we start bad-mouthing other organizations that are involved in the support of the Second Amendment. Whether the NRA did more or less, is not the point. The point is that everyone used their respective reaches to get people involved. The battle will be long and our cause was not hurt by having Ed Worley (California State Liaison for the NRA-ILA nor Chuck Michelle (legal counsel for the NRA, and CRPA in California) present.

I agree the H. Paul Payne is hard to take in large, or small doses. But, few of us have worked as hard, or for the same number of years in support of gun rights as has Paul.

High C

As much as what you say is or may be true, you would think that people who are as experienced as Ed, Chuck and (as he put it at the BOS meeting) "Just 'H'" would be more sensitive to the ones who were in the trenches on this battle.

To come wandering in to town and attempt to take full credit (albeit with a back handed nod to our efforts) is just enormously poor form and quite frankly leaves a bad taste.

If you are so plugged in to them you might want to counsel them on their behavior.

They are not making any friends here with this attitude.

They could be a whole lot more productive working with us than trying to find was to make themselves look good.

[huna koa]

from all sides is good, until they're cornered; then it's time to sever the head; with some well trained seasoned snipers.[Please forgive the analogy; martial arts training]...if we're all on the same side, there's a time and place for everything and every person.

[THE Gimper]

Originally Posted by DVSmith

High C

As much as what you say is or may be true, you would think that people who are as experienced as Ed, Chuck and (as he put it at the BOS meeting) "Just 'H'" would be more sensitive to the ones who were in the trenches on this battle.

To come wandering in to town and attempt to take full credit (albeit with a back handed nod to our efforts) is just enormously poor form and quite frankly leaves a bad taste.

If you are so plugged in to them you might want to counsel them on their behavior.

They are not making any friends here with this attitude.

They could be a whole lot more productive working with us than trying to find was to make themselves look good.

This isn't about who gets the credit. It's about how best to accomplish our common goal, and who's best to lead the fight. The NRA reps stated at the BOS meeting that they didn't know what was going on here in OC. If they don't know what's going on, but try to take the lead on this effort, they risk jeopardizing everything we've worked months to accomplish. A supporting role from the NRA would be welcome. So far, though, the attitude they've demonstrated has been anything but that which would allow them to take a backseat supporting role.

[DVSmith]

Originally Posted by THE Gimper

This isn't about who gets the credit. It's about how best to accomplish our common goal, and who's best to lead the fight. The NRA reps stated at the BOS meeting that they didn't know what was going on here in OC. If they don't know what's going on, but try to take the lead on this effort, they risk jeopardizing everything we've worked months to accomplish. A supporting role from the NRA would be welcome. So far, though, the attitude they've demonstrated has been anything but that which would allow them to take a backseat supporting role.

Well said.

As I was less than concise with my post, let me be clear. The NRA, as anyone would recognize from the posts here, ruffled some local feathers by being insensitive and acting like the 800 lb gorilla. If they wanted to be supportive, they would have listened to the current state of affairs before chiming in. Because they didn't sit back and learn about what was going on before they jumped in, they acted, in some cases, to the detriment of the local initiative.

A better strategy on their part would have been to offer the local organization support before trying to take the lead and jeopardizing the project for all involved.

I hope that they have now recognized that many months of effort and literally hundreds of local activists got us to the BOS meeting. The question now is if they are going to be supportive or continue with some unknown agenda they seem to be trying to press on their own thereby possibly jeopardizing the gains the local activists have realized.

[swdr]

Originally Posted by High Country

First off, I will send to you a check to help with the costs incured.

Many thanks.

Originally Posted by High Country

Second, we lose any time we start bad-mouthing other organizations that are involved in the support of the Second Amendment. Whether the NRA did more or less, is not the point. The point is that everyone used their respective reaches to get people involved. The battle will be long and our cause was not hurt by having Ed Worley (California State Liaison for the NRA-ILA nor Chuck Michelle (legal counsel for the NRA, and CRPA in California) present.

I agree the H. Paul Payne is hard to take in large, or small doses. But, few of us have worked as hard, or for the same number of years in support of gun rights as has Paul.

I'm fine with CRPA and/or NRA involvement. I'm especially fine if they want to lend support. (Without us, of course, they not only can't lead, they have a conveniently proven track record of not leading on California CCWs.)

But let's be clear. The point is not about "credit" or "ego" or "who leads". The point is money.

What Payne did was an attempt to control which direction the monetary donations from Orange County flowed: into the NRA coffers or to OCCCWS and/or CalCCW. It's purely a money issue to him -- and a big one; seven figures or more. It'll affect his life style. That's why you haven't heard about any apology for his attempting to take credit. For him, it's more about politics than about 2A or "shall issue". (Interestingly, Michelle is worse than that.)

[Glock32]

It is about money. It's about egos. In the end it's all about getting it done. Results matter. Everything else is secondary in the long run.

When Chuck Michelle told the BOS in front of running cameras that Sheriff Hutchens has broad discretion in revoking ccw licenses for cause we could tell immediately how well prepared the NRA came to this important meeting. It also showed that Chuck Michelle is a true expert in the field. At that very moment the supervisors had better information in front of them than the big shot NRA lawyer. I am sure the Supervisors did their homework and looked it all up on Google.

This mess could have easily been avoided if Chuck and Paul Peter would have made one or two phone calls prior to 11/18 instead of riding in on their high horses telling the world how great they are pretending 'they made it all happen'.

Bad style Gentlemen, very bad style. Two thumbs down for Chuck and Paul Peter's stunt.

Now let's move forward.

[sealbeach]

OK, I just got home from the meeting with the NRA at J.T. Schmidts...IMHO it was very productive.

This was a small group of NRA members, they were honestly surprised that we showed up (we had been invited, I reminded them), and even more surprised at how much we had to bring to the table on our focused issue of CCW. We have exchanged contact information, and in the future we will be keeping in touch on issues which require either a hands off approach or keeping them informed of issues which should have some action--the key here is keeping in touch on our issues.

We simply did not know who to contact, they were not fully aware of how much work we have been doing--or even the scope and scale of our efforts.

Shame on them for not checking our website, shame on us for assuming they were up to speed. It won't happen again.

I learned a lot about the NRA organizational (or DISorganizational) structure. These local groups are only indirectly connected with H. Payne and Ed Worley, and not at all connected with Chuck Michael. Clear as mud.

Basically, this NRA member's group wants to help, they are not nearly as active a group as we are, but we do have common goals. I think we need to do a whole lot more "reaching out" to similar groups if they exist. We cannot assume that we always got the message through to other volunteer grassroots groups just through our website, we need to actively check and talk to them.

I am tired, and I will post more on this topic tomorrow. The summary of todays meeting was that (IMHO) it was a win-win situation for everyone involved.

[IAmASensFan]

C-dog

Thanks for that. I feel much better about this

[Glock32]

Good news. I am glad to see we are moving forward.

We all had a chance to vent and voice our frustration. Now its time to focus on the goal again.

Thanks for going to the NRA meeting. Sounds like it was productive.