Lawsuit brought by former sheriff’s Lt. Bill Hunt thrown out.

[BonoVox]

Originally Posted by Reloader

I am sure it will be appealed just like Carona is doing.

Maybe.....maybe not. With no other information than what I have gleamed here and there, I sorta think not. I sure hope he does not waste anymore county resources.

Say what you want about now Retired Sheriff Carona, but IMHO he had every right to demote Mr. Hunt and again IMHO showed restraint not doing it before the election. There is something called chain of command and it is critical to an organization like the OCSD. Very critical. That is why it is in place.

If Mr. Hunt were to be elected Sheriff maybe he will feel different about his actions in the election once he has walked in the shoes of a Sheriff leading the 7th largest (?) police agency in the nation. Problem is Orange County can't afford to have on the job training in that position...as we have found out the hard way.

[CalCCW03]

I have received a couple e-mails from a former member who is accusing the staff and Senior/Founding Members of bashing/encouraging people to bash Bill Hunt. The fact of the matter is that we are giving a fair voice to every member of our site. I am sure when other candidates announce their candidacy they will face the same tough questions Mr. Hunt has. Our goal is to remain impartial.

As has been stated many time since this site first went live, we are not a political forum. We support fair issuance to all citizens who are eligible for a CCW.

Following is my exchange with this former member. If anyone is interested in what he has to say I will pass on his contact information (pending his permission).

Chris......people are censored on your forum all the time. The high crime is being a Bill Hunt supporter or offending a LEO or moderator. If these people think he is such a "loser" then why does he keep garnering support, not only from the rank and file at the OCSD, but also in the community and people outside the state? Why dont these name callers be man enough and show up at a rally and ask Hunt the hard questions? The obvious answer is it's easier to level accusations from a distance than to actually have proof of any wrong doing and say it in person.

Here is an idea, why dont you tell me when your next rally/shoot is. I can come and meet calccw people and see what concerns them. Oh wait, I already did that about 2 years ago. Block invited me to one over at Evans. When I showed up not a single person had anything to say to me. All they did was huddle in a corner on the range over at Evans and talked amoung themselves. When one of them did come up to me the only introduction I received was "Hey, whats up, I'm AMC Mike". Not even a real name. I would of thought it funny if these guys didnt think they were junior GI men. It truely was a sight to see.

Regards.............Removed by 03



oe Blow <calccw03@yahoo.com>
To: Removed by 03
Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 3:49:48 PM
Subject: Re: Bill Hunt Bashing

Ron,

I saw the thread in question and all I see there is typical bashing that goes on in any election. The question glbtrottr (who BTW is NOT Greg Block) was more of a "wondering out loud" type of question. I think most people have done things in their past that they would rather not be known. I don't think he insinuated that Bill Hunt for a fact had skeletons in his closet or had done anything illegal. It was merely a question. If other individuals decide to throw their hat into the ring for this election I am sure they will face the same sort of (as you put it) bashing. I will certainly not allow their opinions to be censored as I won't allow those that are not behind Hunt to be censored. It's part of politics.

Chris

From: Removed by 03
To: calccw03@yahoo.com
Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 2:12:51 PM
Subject: Bill Hunt Bashing

Hey Chris......I see the Bill Hunt bashing over at Calccw is picking up speed. It seems that there is a select group there that has a problem with Bill taking on his corrupt boss. Specifically glbtrottr, or this this Greg Block, running his mouth again? Who ever it is, here is a quote glbtrottr used:

"Now - I have another question for you. Do you think Mr. Hunt has skeletons in his closet? Do you think he ever participated in cronyism? Do you think he ever did things considered to be illegal? Do you think he swept things under the rug? I do...and I think this is only round one of a very long fight for Mr. Hunt."

Chris........What is the problem with these folks on your forum? What are the "skeletons" in this mans closet? These so called "skeletons" seem to be eluded to alot on this forum but yet no one seems to be able to articulate any, if at all. For being a "non-political site" it sure has taken on the role of bashing the one pro-ccw candidate in the race. Regardless I will go ahead and forward the thread to Bill Hunt and his staff to try and clarify what "illegal" behavior Bill was involved in. I will also seek clarification on his involvement in "cronyism" and him "sweeping things under the rug" during his employment at the OCSD.

If you or glbtrottr wish to clarify the statements given, and provide any supporting evidence for such comments, I will be more than happy to await your response before forwarding the thread to Bill Hunt and his staff. I will await your response.

[Reloader]

Look. I love you guys, But i refuse to to put up that ****.

[glbtrottr]

Interesting how I received no messages from the poster in question, but I'm asked to "meet people in person" for what amusingly sounds like a showdown at the OK Corral, be called out, or be put on a time out in fear that a thread may be forwarded to Mr. Hunt. Is that like being sent to the Principal's office?

Frankly, after losing his lawsuit, I imagine that if Bill Hunt had any character (and I imagine he does), he has far bigger fish to fry than knocking on my door for disagreeing with his political viability. If not, again, I would question the judgement of those involved.

Let's also agree: it's interesting that one of the arguments for Mr. Hunt's lawsuit was based on his freedom of speech and first amendment rights. Equally interesting that during his demotion hearing, of the significant amounts of the criticism that he had leveled against Mr. Carona, the transcript reads that the bulk of his accusations were based on things he had "heard in the media" and not which he specifically had first hand knowledge of. It is only when the criticism is aimed at him that his supporters (and possibly Mr. Hunt) take issue with first amendment rights.

Leaders get hit, and Mr. Hunt is running for political office. Get used to it. I agree with his RKBA values, and I am a poppyseed on a fly's rump compared to what the competition and Sandy Hutchens team will do to Bill if he makes it that far.

If the customer in question knew anything, he would specifically know that I am *not* Greg Block, I don't dress up like Greg Block (not even on Halloween), I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night, and I tend to consider a few in the gang good acquaintances or friends. Moreover, short of being a lurker, I have met quite a few people on the board, as well as a good bunch of people from SafeOC...including Mr. Hunt.

This isn't new. When I posted my disapproval of Mr. Hunt's candidacy at Calguns and I was PM'd by one of the SafeOC founders, I provided my name, phone number, and was asked my last name, which I had no problems in providing. I specifically tried to help both SafeOC and OCCCWS get together, which their board specifically declined. They refused to work with OCCCWS after I held out an olive branch, and members of this board were directly told during the gun show that I was the one against the meeting and a few other misstatements (thankfully, I save all my PM's showing the contrary, including exchanges with their board membership). I have spoken to SafeOC by phone, met them at On Target, met them at their booth at the gun shows, spoken with Bill Hunt...so if there's any division, SafeOC can own up to it at least as much as OCCCWS. What was this about "leveling accusations from a distance" and "asking the hard questions"?

Now, to the poster in question, what's with the business of Greg Block "running his mouth again"? Can you enlighten us as to when he ran his mouth to begin with? Please be *very specific.* In fact, rather than leveling accusations from a distance, I encourage you to live by the same standard you proclaim: show up at your favorite burger joint, and I'll encourage Mr. Block to attend in person.

Sounds to me like a lot of players blowing hot air about the size of their sack, instead of focusing on getting Sandy Sue out of office. If you had so many issues with my postings, why not PM me directly or post a reply? Only cockroaches hide in dark corners.

[X-ffdo]

Listen guys!
1) I am in San berdo. Co.
2) I have never met Mike Carona.
3) I have never met Bill Hunt.
4) I am not privy to specific details on this issue.
5) I do not have a horse in this race.
6) It is after all, none of my concern, as it is inconsequential to me. I do not live in OC.
7) If I get fired, and think I was fired unfairly, I take the individual to court.
8) The court rules against me, then I am a man and I have done all a man can do. If no other recourse, I just "stow it".
9) That is the end of it for me in relationship to that particular issue. Finito!!
10) Life can be full of unfairness. Little children with cancer, etc.....
If the guy fired me to neutralize me politically because I am running against him, and nothing else, then it sucks, then it is the political atmosphere of this system that allows such an event to occur, if the system can not deal with the situation in an equitable manner, planet earth. What's new?
Lock up this thread because you will never convince anyone, people do not change! They dig in! The present sheriff is simply not qualified. Period! you are not going to convince anyone of anything!
If that guy is the only pro gun guy running, you may have to vote for him because you are not going to vote for the appointed sheriff. She is being run by others and you all know who they are. I do not know any of them either.
But they are there sucking up a big paycheck and probably spying on you right now!..... They forget, Nothing is forever!
PS. I do know Greg Block!!!!. I know he is not the type to "run off his mouth" Anyone making that statement is indeed full of it! Fact!!!

[Keith92555]

Second the motion for locking up this thread. People are getting personal and petty. The direction it is going has nothing to do with CCW.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by glbtrottr

Now - I have another question for you. Do you think Mr. Hunt has skeletons in his closet? Do you think he ever participated in cronyism? Do you think he ever did things considered to be illegal? Do you think he swept things under the rug? I do...and I think this is only round one of a very long fight for Mr. Hunt.

As I have asked before, if everyone feels SO positive on Mr. Hunt, are you all willing to bet your paycheck on his winning? I've made the offer before, lets bet your paycheck and mine, we'll put them in escrow, and use them in Mr. Hunt's celebratory party, or let me buy another gun with my winnings.

Takers?

I can think of one. Anyone remember Greg Haidl and what happened on 10/26/2003?

Carona trial testimony: Greg Haidl had ‘deer in headlight look’ - Total Buzz - OCRegister.com

Ex-aide testifies in Carona corruption trial about reimbursements -- latimes.com

Tin Star Blog: Hunting for cover from the Attorney General

[GunSlut]

Originally Posted by Keith92555

Second the motion for locking up this thread. People are getting personal and petty. The direction it is going has nothing to do with CCW.

This thread WILL remain open. It will be monitored closely. This thread has everything to do with CCW's in Orange County.

[glbtrottr]

Originally Posted by Keith92555

Second the motion for locking up this thread. People are getting personal and petty. The direction it is going has nothing to do with CCW.

?? Confused.

Let me see if I follow the logic here.

1) We all hate Sandy Sue's policy - otherwise we wouldn't be here. She is unreasonable in her issuance of CCW's.
2) Sandy Sue is an appointed Sheriff. We don't like her, so we want to elect someone different than her who will ideally bring a better policy for CCW issuance.
3) There are a couple of groups supporting issuance of CCW's in California. OCCCWS, and SafeOC.
4) The only candidate out there so far is Bill Hunt. He's sponsored by SafeOC. People like him because he is proCCW.
5) CCW is a nitch issue. The voters will not elect a Sheriff purely on the basis of CCW...and some of us state that Desperate Housewives of Orange County as a voting block may or may not care about the issue. They are not a small voting block. (can anyone remember who was vocal against the Resolution / vote of no confidence in Sandy Sue at the Republican meeting, and what their demographics were? - remember, it was a REPUBLICAN meeting)
5) Based on Bill Hunt's professional qualifications and personal life choices, some of us don't think that he's an electable Sheriff candidate, proCCW or not. Specifically, we think the opposition will tear him apart, which will be a lot of wasted effort for our cause. Some of us belong to OCCCWS who think he's a bad candidate.
6) We express those opinions in an open forum, with specifics, logic flow, and open disagreement. Some of us also post said opinions in Calguns.
7) Those who disagree begin the name calling as PETTY and PERSONAL. Surprise! Politics are PETTY and PERSONAL.

This isn't about Bill Hunt's hairdo, choices of clothing, speech, or else. It's about getting someone elected to the office of Sheriff, County of Orange, who will support our cause. I've said it before: Bill may be a fine man...but the competition will tear him yet another one. Now - can you enlighten me as to which of the posts in question that you take issue with have nothing to do with CCW, Keith92555?

So some of you can choose to beg for censorship, call it PETTY and PERSONAL like some politicians call some News Organizations "Talk Radio", shut down those who disagree with you, and ignore one of the very tenets that make this nation great: FREEDOM of SPEECH. This is exactly the kind of crud we're trying to fight against, and seeing it here on CalCCW is astounding to me.

[glbtrottr]

Oh! I hadn't seen those articles in the paper. Thanks for the referral. It looks like they substantiate my point:

"...Roche told jurors he wanted to cite Haidl, but was directed not to cite Haidl or write a report. Sgt. Richard Downing also told him to drive Haidl home, Roche said.

Roche said he wrote a generic log entry about the incident. Later, Roche testified, Lt. Bill Hunt asked him to write a report about the incident — then asked him to amend it.
“He said what I had written was not what he was looking for,” Roche said. “He basically wanted everything left out that had Greg Haidl as the possessor of the marijuana. He told me to point the possession of marijuana towards (another) juvenile.”

“Is this the santized version of the report?” federal proscutor Ken Julian asked.

“It is,” Roche said.

Hunt was later reprimanded for his handling of the incident.
“Did you give Greg Haidl preferential treatment?” Julian also asked.

“In my opinion, yes … he didn’t end up receiving a citation and I ended up driving him home,” Roche replied"...

There you have it, folks.

Cronyism towards Don Haidl by ignoring his Greg Haidl's marijuana issues.
Misrepresenting events by rewriting a report that would have otherwise pointed at Greg Haidl. They call this lying where I come from
Accusing the innocent...pointing blame at the other juvenile? It makes me wonder how many criminal cases Mr. Hunt also treated in this manner, either by augmenting the events that took place, or pointing them at someone else.
Reprimanded.

Do people really change? I invite Mr. Hunt, who posts in this forum, to respond as to his reasoning behind the event that took place above. Please help clarify it for us. Do you think the opposition, Sandy Hutchens, who has access to your complete and total personnel file, will not know about this, or do you hope that if you stick your head in the sand it will go away?

[Banana]

Originally Posted by Spicy McHaggis

I can think of one. Anyone remember Greg Haidl and what happened on 10/26/2003?

2003, so just clarify for me, that was under Carona, and he was later reprimanded for this, by the Carona administration?

[CalCCW03]

Originally Posted by GunSlut

This thread WILL remain open. It will be monitored closely. This thread has everything to do with CCW's in Orange County.

I have reviewed the thread and concur with Gunslut. The thread has not strayed off topic but will be closely monitored to ensure that it does not stray.

[X-ffdo]

Thanks for bringing up to the light details about the situation with Mr. Hunt.
As I stated earlier, I do not know details about this issue. I hope you guys in OC can change the course of the politics in OC. for the better. Looks murky!

[Banana]

This thread has everything to do with CCW. I have loads of issues with Bill Hunt (oh golly no, I'm not GB either, oddly when someone speaks ill of our fair president they get called racist, when someone speaks ill of Bill Hunt they get called GB, how insane is that?). I don't know Mike Carona so I have no issues with Hunt taking on anyone if they were, in fact, corrupt (oh wait he wasn’t a whistle blower either so it’s unclear who he took on, but I digress). I've posted a mini-novella on said topic on another site, so if we MUST stay strictly to Hunt and CCW here that is fine, Hunt is still a god awful choice even by that narrow band. Forget that he tampered with police statements to implicate an innocent party in the alleged crimes of another, forget that he broke his oath in the last election, forget that he has limited experience, forget that he blatantly wasted gobs of taxpayers money for his own greed and ego in a lawsuit that was thrown out of court because the case had NO merit, forget that no one has taken the time to actually vet Hunt as a candidate, and most certainly forget that many of us who have met and spoken with him at length actually don’t like what he has to say. Placing all of that and more to the side …

1 – When it was time to speak publicly on the topic of CCW’s, Hunt chose not to do so. He was not employed at that point by the sheriff’s office so he had every right to speak up. Speaking at that meeting would have in no way damaged his career, yet he not only didn’t speak, he didn’t even show up. FURTHER when it was clear that Sandy Sue was using intimidation and harassment against the CCW community, he AGAIN didn’t show up at the following meeting. The BOS approves the sheriff’s budget so showing support for them and for the CCW holders would have been, I don’t know, about the easiest thing he could have done. Low hanging fruit. Nah, Hunt was above being there with us little guys. So grassroots wise, Hunt through his non-actions has shown he doesn’t give a dime for any one of us. And politically he has showed he has even less concern for courting the BOS who holds the purse strings for the office he is seeking, not a brilliant move no matter how you cut it. But wait…

2 – Bill Hunt ran San Clemente, moreover, he had the power and authority to issue CCW's, yet he issued exactly how many CCW’s? Oh wait, let me count, hm yes and then there was that and … oh wait, no, he issued ZERO. Zero? Wow, he is pro CCW and he issued zero CCW’s in his tenure. Yes, of course I see his commitment to our cause.

Actions. Words are nothing but hot air. Look at a man’s actions and then you see the truth.

[ChrisG]

You need to get your facts right. He was not demoted the next day, not even 90 days later. He lost the election by over 25%. He was not forced to retire, he didn't even request a scully hearing. Even if he retired after the scully hearing, his retirement would have been the same amount.